MayDay

It's a misspelling.

"Besides, the fad for adaptive re-use of old things has passed." What is this bubble you live in?

"Look at the location of both centers mentioned. They are surrounded by wealth." Given that most of the Cleveland metro's wealth is concentrated in the 'burbs - look at the location of Cleveland, it's surrounded by wealth (and equidistant from the east, west and south sides).

I work one block from the site and got to hear allll about it. "Awww, we're gonna have to park off East 13th now? Waaaahh!!!". Mind you we're talking about a lot that's catty-corner to the Avenue District site. I was happy to answer their questions like "who would want to live downtown?" - telling them that not everyone wants 3,000 sq. feet on a half-acre in Medina County was fun. They looked at me like I was a heretic.

"They liked the sprawling shopping malls like Great Northern, and big box developments with restaurant out parcels like Avon Commons" I question that - I think people have specific needs from specific stores, and sprawl-malls and big-boxes are the unfortunate model. Until Crocker Park, there simply wasn't any choice for mainstream retail - you were forced into a shamelessly auto-centric model. I seriously doubt that people look at swaths of asphalt and sigh "... ahh, this is the life." *I* shop at Crocker Park (and Beachwood Place), but it's not because I enjoy a 20-minute trip to the suburbs, it's because I like Trader Joe's, I like Banana Republic, H&M, etc. - they just happen to be in sprawlville in big box developments or faux-urban settings. Had those places had locations within the city limits, you'd better believe I'd never set foot in Crocker Park. "Plus (I have to tell this to people who will "never set foot" in the area), the spin off development is a reality. There is construction all over the place." Unfortunately, it's almost all the garden-variety auto-centric schlock that's infested Westlake for years. As faux-urban as Crocker Park is, the crap that's getting built up and down Crocker Road isn't even bothering to follow suit. I'm sorry but condos like Wyndgate hardly qualify as medium-density - sure, they're more densely built than the cul-de-sacs but that's not saying much. Outside of Crocker Park, it's the same old unsustainable, way-too-large setbacked, un-pedestrian-friendly junk - http://www.cityofwestlake.org/business/RecDevProj.php

I want to say rooms go anywhere from $160ish on up but my partner took care of that so I can't say for certain. If you need a downtown Phoenix fix (I don't participate on skyscrapercity.com, I much prefer skyscraperpage's forum)- I took some photos during my visit last year. It's got a long ways to go but they're at least doing the right thing with light rail and some condo construction:

*Ahem* - it's surgically attached, you know ;-)

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have steel coming out of the ground: And the framing for the townhomes is plugging along:

"Did you confuse this with the arcades in Cleveland? I thought they have all been saved." It's common courtesy to put the specific city in the thread title.

You're welcome - it stems from spending my formative years in various punk clubs around Youngstown. Friends would give me directions like "hang a left, go down three lights, make a right and you'll see it" which of course resulted in me backtracking through post-apocalyptic neighborhoods. So now, I'm a stickler for putting together maps with painfully accurate directions :-)

Okay folks - step aside. No one makes psychotically detailed maps like I (and Google Maps) do and has (so far) a 100% success rate at getting people where they need to go without getting them lost. presOhio, you have two choices - let's call them the yellow route and the blue route. Fyi, most of the roads on Scranton Road Peninsula are pretty rough - don't say I didn't warn you. The yellow route presumes you can get from downtown to the Lorain-Carnegie Bridge. Take the L/C Bridge to the light at WEST 20th Street. Make a LEFT onto West 20th. At ABBEY AVENUE, make a RIGHT. The next street will be COLUMBUS ROAD. Make a RIGHT onto Columbus Road. Take Columbus Road down the hill to CARTER ROAD (as landmark, Hooples bar will be on your left and the Columbus Road lift bridge will be dead ahead. If you get on the lift bridge, you've gone too far). Make a RIGHT onto Carter and take Carter to your destination. Note that Carter has some rough terrain. The BLUE route presumes you'll be coming from downtown via I-90/I-71. Take the WEST 14th exit - when it splits you'll want to follow the sign to loop around to ABBEY. Make a RIGHT onto Abbey and go back under the overpass. Make a LEFT onto West 13th (which looks like a one-way alley next to Sokolowski's University Inn). West 13th "Ts" into UNIVERSITY ROAD. Make a LEFT onto University - be very careful as it's a hill and oncoming traffic can't see well. Take University Road down the hill to Scranton Road - make a right and take Scranton to your destination.

When we last left off, we had just crossed the Hoover Dam: Next up is a four-hour drive through some scenic (though creepily desolate as in they filmed "The Hitcher" in places like this) areas. It didn't help that instead of deer crossing signs (with a graceful little deer silhouette leaping), they had ELK and RAM signs... I had visions of our rental car being vaporized: The entrance is on the other side of that mountain: We arrive at the Maswik Lodge on the South Rim - a humble but cute little place to stay that's in walking distance from the trails and amenities (aka El Tovar hotel's bar): The very first photo I took. Folks, I'm a city boy and I'm one of the least outdoorsy people I know - I wholeheartedly recommend a visit to the Grand Canyon - my photos can't, nor anyone's photos for that matter, do this justice. I posted a few larger shots just to try to convey the magnitude: There were a lot of foreign tourists: That would be a condor: Maybe I'm really warped but the image on this sign made me laugh: The next thing I know - about 15 feet away from us, a trio of elk are out and about - maybe on a beer run? These things were HUGE: Oooh... ahhh... it was mostly a full moon and it was amazing to see the barely visible canyon (not too mention stars without light pollution): The next morning, we step out on the balcony for coffee - and another elk greets us - this time, a baby: My partner wanted to go on the Bright Angel trail into the Canyon. I reluctantly agreed... no, we didn't ride the mules, I was nervous enough. Unfortunately, the mules took up a lot of the trail as they went by. They also left droppings which made the narrow, loose-graveled trail even more treacherous. My partner was especially tolerant of my tendency to verbalize when I get nervous. It didn't help that I didn't wear hiking boots - I don't OWN hiking boots, and by the way - if you happen to be a chubby, granola-sucking, unshaven-legged skank and you come across someone who is visibly uncomfortable on a trail, you REALLY don't need to say something like "you don't have the right shoes for this!" because 1. it doesn't help, 2. it's obvious, and 3. I doubt you have the right shoes for most places that offer running water, you fat miserable COW!!! Ahem, needless to say it was time to head to our next destination - Scottsdale. Here's a huge mountain in the Flagstaff area: Yes indeed, we got our kicks (well okay, a tank of gas) on Route 66, in Flagstaff, Arizona ("... don't forget Winona") Unfortunately we didn't have to stop in Sedona proper, but there was a rest area where we got a peek of the red rock: And then I got a peek of this sign and decided it was time to bail (we simply don't have things like this in Cleveland - and I like it that way): Traffic heading north out of Phoenix was heavy - everyone wanted to escape the heat for the holiday weekend: Um, a dust devil? Ooookay.... Getting close to Scottsdale, I can see Camelback Mountain: We arrive at the Mondrian - a funky (if not odd) hotel: A little exploring of the Scottsdale area: We stopped at the Sugar Bowl for desserts - apparently the creator of the "Family Circus" cartoon strip is a huge fan: Another ultra-modern hotel - the Valley Ho: With the heat, and being a Friday - parts of Scottsdale were pretty empty. Thursday nights during Art Walks - it's much more lively: Back to the Mondrian - I wanted to stuff this in my carry-on bag but it was about 4 feet tall. The Red Bar at Mondrian: But it was time to go, one last look at the mountains on the way to the airport: Downtown Phoenix: Camelback Mountain and some smog :-( Downtown Phoenix in the distance: Ahh, a proper body of water!!! We fly over Elyria (pop. 55Kish), in the Cleveland metro: Getting close to the airport, the Great Northern Mall area of North Olmsted: And back home - hope you enjoyed!

@MTS - no, didn't get a chance to stop at the outlets but I got some decent shopping in anyway. @LAsam - just to clarify, the Chinatown is more or less a mile-long stretch of those strip malls. Not the most urban 'hood but I was still surprised to see it.

You can't get to Scranton Road from Abbey without plunging your car off a bridge. I think you mean Columbus Road, which connects with Abbey near the Morgan plant.

Yeah - the animatronic show was such a clash to the relatively upscale shops. I used to think Tower City's fountain was dated... compared to Caesar's it's not so bad!

A flyover of Lake Mead on our way into Vegas: Ugh - BAD city planner!!! Part of the Strip's skyline in the distance: At our destination, the Venetian - nice chandeliers abound: View from the hotel room: The faux-sky painting of the Venetian shops: Portico of the Venetian: The Venetian campanile: Alright, enough of the Venetian, let's walk the Strip: Harrah's Looking back toward the Wynn and Venetian, with the Palazzo under construction: The Forum Shoppes at Caesar's Palace: Back at the room, another view out the window: And some nighttime shots: The next day, off to go out for lunch - Fashion Show Mall's UFO canopy on the left: Hash House a Go Go! Portions were obscene: My partner's friend works in a local garden center, so out come the macro shots! Back to the Strip, we catch a glimpse of the Stratosphere: This made me sad - the remnants of the Stardust sign (one of my favorite old-school signs): Cold beer - yes. Dirty girls - no. We took a walk through the Wynn - gauche and over the top, but they did a good job designing this place: This sculpture was just weird, though: The next day, our friend took us to Boulder City - a small town about 20 minutes from the Strip: Some cute stucco bungalows - they were typical residential stock here: There was one shop that had some funky souvenirs, and some were downright disturbing (I was reminded of the movie 'Carrie') A turbine from Boulder Dam: A great view of Lake Mead from Boulder City: Time to get back to the hotel: "FABULOUS" Las Vegas ;-) Lion at the MGM Grand: Harrah's again: The Wynn, looking all shiny: New York, New York :roll: :roll: :-P On our way to Red Rock Casino away from the Strip, we pass through Vegas' Chinatown - who knew they had one?!? We get to Red Rock Casino - pretty snazzy for not being on the strip: But it was our last night, so back to the Strip we went: Bellagio and Caesar's Palace: The lobby of Paris, with shimmering mosaic tile floors: The fountains at the Bellagio, shooting up over 250 feet: Not all the beautiful lights are neon in Vegas: The cupola of the Bellagio: Next destination is the Grand Canyon and Phoenix - last look at Vegas: Off to Rt. 93 which will take us to the Hoover Dam I want these Art Deco angels!!!

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the condo owners' complaints aren't legit. They've invested a good chunk of change in their residence in the city and it should go without saying that the parking space/s they paid for (and were promised) should be functional within reason. It would also behoove the developer to be a little more cordial than saying "suck it up" when he has future phases in the pipeline. You have potential buyers reading the article and if they perceive that management will be unresponsive (or downright hostile) for a minor issue, they'll take their money elsewhere. But leave it to the PD to turn a little squabble like this into a tempest in a teacup.

On a lighter note - for anyone feeling colorful

Another updated pic - the top is a view north from the Viaduct, the bottom is the site plan, with north being to the left:

As if anyone on this forum would suggest that a Londoner could find an exact match of their lifestyle in the 216 area code. For the most part, the members of this forum try to steer people toward an area that would at least be favorable. Any time someone says "oh, Cleveland's just as good at ____ as ____" - they get shot down and corrected in about two minutes. We point out the warts of the city as well as the positive aspects. No one here will say that Cleveland's transit/shopping/nightlife/whatever is equal to London's (or DC, or NYC, you get the point), but they will say that an open-minded individual can relocate from such an area and (gasp) possibly live a fulfilling life. You're the one drawing absurd conclusions - no one else. And by the way, I had the privilege of spending an afternoon with some absolutely terrific people from all walks of life who attended the meet. You're the one missing out by not attending - and that's a reflection on you, not the forum.

For "not being a photographer", I'd say you've done a great job!

Did someone request a photo update? :-) From June 1st:

1pm is the scheduled time to be at Great Lakes - anyone who might be arriving late, you have about 30 minutes to PM me for my cell number!

It was awful as in firecode violating awful. Everytime you tried to get out of the way of people, a bouncer would come along and bark "keep it moving, folks!". Not just in the main "traffic flow" spots - but everywhere! I mean, I go out of my way to be nice to bar/club staff because so many of my friends would tell me horror stories. But at one point when one of the bouncers started up again, I turned to the guy and said "can you just lay off for one f#cking minute? We're standing here waiting for two people to make their way through the f#cking crowd that you obviously can't control, and when they get here we're leaving and you'll have THAT much more room - okay!??!?!?" Oh, and having to bulldoze your way through a group of nine short overweight Pussycat Doll-wannabes (lingerie and all) - yeah - lots o' fun. :roll:

I had the mis-fortune of going to Tao in Vegas (not my choice) - painfully crowded with turbohoochies being ogled by no-necks. No thanks! The restaurant and rooftop bar were fine; hopefully this Silk joint can do the same.