MayDay

Cincinnatus, I think you've also misinterpreted quite a few of my remarks as well and as someone who has an enormous amount of respect for you I hope we can at least see where we are coming from, and agree to disagree. Obviously this is something we are both passionate about but I come from the school of thought that art is for everyone, and people shouldn't be reluctant to visit a museum because they're afraid of a monastery-like atmosphere, or they haven't been blessed to have studied art extensively, or that they may be too young to truly appreciate what they're seeing. As RiverViewer said and it should go without saying - I'd like "those people to behave respectfully, some of us have a higher standard of decorum than others." First and foremost, in no way, shape or form was my comment about future generations meant as a slam at your (or anyones') age or somehow comparing your age to mine. Some of my dearest friends are significantly older than you and they would vouch for me on that. Perhaps a better way to phrase it would have been "those who would be around longer than US", because I was not including myself nor my brilliant generation when I referred to 'future generations'. I see why you might have been offended by that, but that was not at all the intent. Not knowing your exposure and experience to art museums - well, I guess I stand corrected but I still stand by some of my remarks. Second, "elitist" - no offense but you did say "call me an elitist if you like"? Well, I read and re-read your comments about the popularization of museums and quite honestly (and this is just going from what you posted) I felt that yep, they genuinely read as elitist to me. Again, no offense but when you say "call me a ____ if you like" and I read comments that seem _____, well...? This quote above all was what brought me to that conclusion:"playgrounds for squealing brats and night clubs and wedding chapels and everything else but places where people mature enough to appreciate it can quietly contemplate art works really annoys me" It really reads like something a curmudgeon would say, as opposed to someone with a deep appreciation for art. I share the sentiment that obnoxious behavior has no place in an art musuem - but I refer to what I said about art being for everyone. I've rarely seen any issues with unruly kids at the museums I patronize, nor have I seen the 'extra-curricular' activities have a detrimental effect on the museum or the overall atmosphere therein. What I do know is that many museums are seeing declining memberships - how else will they be able to stay afloat unless they embrace new blood? It's those extra-curricular events that generate interest - after all, the museum wasn't necessarily built to hold gala fundraisers for blockbuster exhibitons but would you suggest that they are inappropriate? Along that line of thought, I don't have thousands to donate and become a high-tier donor - but I do have some disposable income that I enjoy spending at things like "Cool Fridays" (aka jazz in the courtyard). I have no children, I most likely never will have children, but I know how my life has been enhanced by my countless visits to art museums since I remember - the first being at age 5. I want others to have those experiences, I want the museums to be able to offer them. If they don't recruit new younger patrons now, they won't be able to. In my experience, security has been the least concern, as most I've seen have either laser "screens" that set off alarms or extensive surveillance systems with extremely alert staff. Does Cincy's museum lack in that department? The museums I hold nearest and dearest have always had free admission (except for special exhibits) - then again, they have had that for decades so maybe it's a perception issue now that Cincy's has just started such a program?

"I am also not a fan of the "popularization" of museums in general.The idea that museums should be playgrounds for squealing brats and night clubs and wedding chapels and everything else but places where people mature enough to appreciate it can quietly contemplate art works really annoys me and it is a trend in art museums the world over." "Call me an elitist if you like" Elitist. Stupid behavior by patrons (or their offspring) should never be tolerated (people touching artwork should be reported immediately and their hands amputated), but do you hear yourself? How on god's green earth are people ever going to develop a further appreciation and respect for the arts if people like you want to ensure a stifling tomb-like ambience? And if you care so deeply about the museum, you'd know that across the board, art museums have seen a substantial drop in donations (because of the economy) - non-profit or not, the bills have to be paid. Museums can no longer afford to be "islands". Anyways, does it really intrude upon your life to see a wedding party having their photos taken at the museum? Does it really intrude upon your happiness if a couple gets married in the museum (during off-hours - I've *never* heard of a museum that allows such events during open gallery hours). Does it really irk you that museums try to boost their membership ranks, particularly those who are going to be around longer than you? The museums have to keep going after we've passed on - and if we shun away people because they haven't reached some lofty notion of 'maturity', they won't be around for the next generations. Squealing brats? I've always resolved that with a scowl at the parents - works every time. People touching work? A simple but stern "excuse me, please don't touch the art" - although I'm surprised it ever happens with modern technology. Don't get me wrong - I know for some people, the experience is more enjoyable with a quiet atmosphere. Here's an idea - and I really think you should approach the museum with this. Suggest that they offer a special "quiet time" with a slightly higher admission fee and an age restriction - maybe a few hours a month on an off-night. Think of it as a VIP night without all the hassle of a membership. It would be a way to generate a little more revenue on slow nights, and who knows - maybe there are more people out there who want the same? I'm serious, I think you may have an opportunity here! Failing that - if you've had such miserable experiences - have you ever contacted the museum? I don't mean the front desk, I mean the people who could make effective changes. If they don't hear you complaining to the right people - they'll never know what's wrong. That's especially true with museum volunteers - I volunteered at the Butler Institute in Youngstown for several hundred hours in the early 90s. So, if I have a truly awful experience - just like I would with any store, I contact the manager. If they aren't available on-site, I contact them at a later time. I don't care if the volunteers are blue-haired old biddies or collegiate-slackers - they're responsible for generating revenue, and being part of the public face of the museum. Every museum has a volunteer director and if they do their job right, they'll run a tight ship. Some people have church in their life, I have art museums - but the last thing I would want is for them to be exclusively for those who can't tolerate others who haven't reached their level of 'maturity'.

And you didn't get this guy's phone number for me? Bah! :roll:

"Cleveland has two gay pride celebrations [(www.clevelandpride.org (june 18) & black unity pride (august 5-8)] coming up. How much does anyone on this board no about them? Probably nothing. local residents probably don't know or wont know in advance." Oh, believe me - I know all about them :wink: "the CVB should be working WITH the gay community to come up with "discovery seeker" ideas not try to market them since the CVB is run by old, white, conservatives." But *who* should represent the community? The activists? The club owners? Heck, the community has plenty of old, white ... well maybe not conservatives but you get the idea.

^Yes and no - the problem with promoting to target groups is that so (soooo) often, the efforts come off as contrived. You're also trying to reach a demographic that is as fickle as the day is long, and is usually a little too worldly to be persuaded by the usual CVB marketing efforts. For example, a travel brochure with a rainbow flag and a smiling gay couple with the Cleveland skyline in the distance would read as ultra-cheesey. You also run the risk of promoting Cleveland to be something it isn't - sure, the nightlife is decent and yes, the community is pretty sizable but don't try to convince the average 'mo that Edgewater/Clifton is the next WeHo, Chelsea or Castro.

That was a group called A Place for Us, which is a company that develops retirement residences for the LGBT community. It's a relatively untapped market nationwide as the community has somewhat different dynamics and needs as they get older. I believe the proposal fell through or simply wasn't acted upon.

Either spring is in the air or something is in the water... Battery Park, Cuyahoga County HQ, Flats East Bank, Steelyard Commons (blech)... and that's just in the city limits!

^Oh Steelyard Commons won't even be something as "nice" as a lifestyle center. We're talking a 'power center' along the lines of Macedonia Commons or Avon Commons - big boxes surrounded by seas of asphalt. I know Jane really didn't please a lot of people (myself included, a registered voter in the city of Cleveland) by going behind Council's back on this one.

"Councilman Zack Reed expressed concern about the financing district, saying the schools should get more than half of the taxes. "How can we go to the residents and ask for a levy while at the same time say in the light of progress, we need to give this project 50 percent of the school taxes?" Reed said." If I was Zack Reed, I'd be more worried about my recent DUI charge - oops! What would he suggest? Gee, let's not approve ANY investment - and let's not provide ANY incentive to developers until the schools have a 100% graduation rate? The revenue from this project is a drop in the bucket compared to the real needs of the schools. If he's THAT concerned about school funding, he needs to take a trip down I-71 and argue school funding issues on the level where real difference can be made.

From the May 16th agenda for the Cleveland BZA : 9:30 Ward 14 Calendar No. 05-17: 1545 Dexter Place Nelson Cintron - 10 Notices Urban Properties LLC, owner, and John Williams, agent, appeal to erect 14 townhouse units in 2 buildings consisting of 9 attached units proposed along the north side of Dexter Place and 5 attached units along the west side of West 28th Street, situated in a B1 Two-Family District on a through lot that encompasses land between Dexter Place and West 28th Street at 1545 Dexter Place; the proposed two multi-unit townhouse structures are contrary to Section 337.03 and are first allowed in a Multi-Family District; the height of 40’ exceeds the 35’ limit in Section 353.01 for a “1” Height District; and contrary to Section 355.04, an approximate 27,942 s/f is proposed in the “B” Area District where one-half the lot area equals 11,200 s/f; and a 5.2’ front yard setback is proposed, instead of the required 15% of the lot depth required in Section 357.04(a); and the total interior side yards are 7’ instead of the required 8’ according to Section 357.09(b)(2)© of the Codified Ordinances. (Filed 1-24-05) .............. Methinks if it's listed on the BZA agenda as recently as May 16th, it ain't a bust :-)

"what is the caliber of the existing building stock in the redevelopment area? Not knowing the area really well..." Here are some links to images of the existing building stock. Quite frankly, it's not much to write home about. I'm also a preservationist at heart but the loss of the buildings in question wouldn't warrant any alarms. http://www.placesintown.com/cleveland/cleveland_flats5_lg.jpg http://www.placesintown.com/cleveland/cleveland_flats1_lg.jpg The big problem with the East Bank as it is now is that those buildings block all public access to the riverfront. Unless you're a patron and able to access one of the decks/patios (and given how many places are closed, that's not easy to do), they block some of the best views of the river/lake. In many cases, the decks aren't connected so pedestrian traffic along the river is hampered. Oh and don't forget the lovely parking lot RIGHT on the river. "realize this tears the visually unique heart out of the flats." Hardly - look at the aerial and compare it to the site plan - a major component of this project is being built on what? What's that? A parking lot! Correct me if I'm wrong - we've all been chanting "build infill on the parking lots!" A small strip of bland brick buildings (remember, we are hardly talking about buildings like the Hoyt and Bradley Buildings in the HWD) that have outlived their usefulness many times over are not the "visually unique" heart of the Flats. The Flats are the river, the bridges, the lake, the leisure boats, the ore freighters - and those aren't going anywhere.

No, the District Park site is located to the right of the proposed 'bookstore' site, and across West 10th from the existing RTA Station.

It's what you've been waiting for! Views from the site: Quite a crowd showed up: Some of the highlights: The glassy building closest to the lake is a proposal for the DFAS offices. I guess high rent was cited as a reason for closing the Cleveland center *however* that rent was set by the Feds (another branch, that is). They are going to appeal the recommendation by offering the new structure (400K sq. ft.) as a site for DFAS. I noticed that parking is limited to one surface lot, and garages under the townhouses on the northern section of the site. Utilities will be buried and/or concealed.

So DFAS, Charter One, and NASA ... the word "catastrophic" comes to mind :-(

From clevelandmemory.org - I'm pretty sure the 668 building is the white structure on the right side of the photo: And here, the building with the large awning to the right of the 'Hipp' (Hippodrome Theatre):

"wow, some very good news! mayday you have a lunch appointment, bring camera!!!" Um, excuse me but did it ever occur to anyone that I might have a life? Just kidding, of course I don't have a life (sad but true) so I will do my best to be there! Folks as far as the residential count - well, the Bingham has a little over 300 units spread over 12 enormous floors. So take the Bingham and flatten it to say, 3 or 4 stories but spread it out to accomodate the same total of units. That covers a lot of space if you ask me.

Yep, there's a Wild Oats on Chagrin. And I totally agree about Natures' Bin and admire their employment practices.

"I haven't seen them do any exciting/inspiring projects in Ohio as of yet. Didn't they move into Shaker Square for like 6 months and then cut out early?" They are opening their first Cleveland-area store in the next year or two. It will be located near Cedar Center (South Euclid, at the intersection of Warrensville Ctr. Road and Cedar Road). You're thinking of Wild Oats which was located at Shaker Square. Quite frankly, Wild Oats seems like an organic/health food store that was conceived by suits and designed by their perceptions of the demographics. Their prices are high for the mediocre product they offer - as opposed to Trader Joes offering high-quality, low-cost - and Whole Foods is high-quality, high-cost. People who would shop at Wild Oats at Shaker Square already went to the North Union Farmers Market at Shaker Square anyways. "Constantino's would be a much smaller version of Whole Foods," Not really - Constantino's doesn't focus on organic or artisan foods. They just offer mainstream grocery fare on a smaller scale. "So I wonder how much the new market has helped sales and rentals in the WHD. I know it makes a world of difference to me! I'll say this much - every time I go in there during my lunch break, there's about a dozen people shopping and the front seating area is filled. Every time. And I remember when this building was boarded up.

Okay - there's a little more than a single pane of glass this time around. It looks like they're taking advantage of the warm weather - the most notable differences are the western facade (a lot more glass in place now), and the mullions for the penthouse floors are going in on the northern facade:

So Saturday I spent some time in Akron and then went to visit the family. Sunday, I paid a visit to my old stomping grounds of Youngstown. Some things have changed a lot - some for the better, some for the worse. Here's what I saw: Coming across the South Avenue bridge, I snapped a pic of the new convocation center. Not too shabby and it's close enough to downtown that I can see a potential for spinoff development: Over to Federal Plaza which they re-opened to east-west traffic: The Federal Courthouse - small but handsome: My favorite in Youngstown - Metropolitan Tower (224 feet): The ornate entrance to the Stambaugh Building - where I saw two tourists - yes, TOURISTS who were scoping the building. Apparently they were falcon watchers and a pair has set up a nest on the Stambaugh Building - who knew? The SkyBank Building: OH NO!!! IT"S THAT LIBERAL HAGAN!!! NO TO HAGAN!!!! ;-) I have to say that Federal Plaza looks great after being re-opened to traffic. The neo-classical Mahoning County Courthouse: The Stambaugh Building: The Bank One Building If memory serves correctly, this was formerly the HQ for Phar-Mor: Nice detailing on this small building: The Realty Building - proposed for residential conversion (not sure how that's progressed): Swwwweet! A rather ornate 'crown' to this entrance - albeit in need of repair: The newest "high-rise" in Youngstown - built in 1970ish: Parking garages? Blech. Brutalism? Blech! Brutalist parking garages??? BLECH!!! Arguably the most well-known high-rise in Youngstown because it's located on the outskirts of the CBD and the crown is brightly lit at night - the Home Savings and Loan building: The statue of St. Columba at St. Columba Cathedral - seat of the Youngstown diocese: This poor church was literally right across from St. Columba: The county jail to the left, some sort of industrial something in the distance: And back downtown - notice the odd vehicle? It was right out of Mad Max - and I saw quite a few like it that day: I headed to the south side - and sure enough - this wreck hadn't improved: In 2002: And May 2005: Ooo - urban meadow! And the house has been scavenged of its siding for scrap metal: Pregnant and scared? Maybe not pregnant but yep - scared!!! Sorry about the glare on this one - note the porches have completely collapsed: Enough of the south side, up to YSU we go! YSU's 'Old Main': Down the hill from YSU is this new housing development - architecturally it's nothing groundbreaking but nice nonetheless: I headed a little north and managed to find Wick Park - pretty nice! Further north is Fifth Avenue - lots of nice older homes: These are right across from Wick Park: Unfortunately so is this: And this: Stambaugh Auditorium, a popular concert venue anchors the southwest corner of the park: Heading south, the house that Jim Tressel built: Next up - the beauty of Mill Creek Park and the Fellows Riverside Gardens! Here's Part 1 if you missed it! http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3332.0

The only building I can think of on the site is 1010 Euclid (because Jacobs owns the tower, rotunda, 4-story section w/skywalk and the garage, *and* the 1010 Euclid Building which is connected to the tower). While it's not the most remarkable building, I find it hard to believe that the city would ever approve a surface lot right on Euclid Avenue:

From cleveland.com ................... Historic Warehouse District to get $500,000 makeover Sunday, May 08, 2005 Donna Iacoboni Plain Dealer Reporter Browning scrubby shrubs adorned with wind-strewn trash along St. Clair Avenue will become history in the Historic Warehouse District. Next month, the district's community development corporation will begin a $500,000 streetscape project that will include benches, trees, stone planters, huge hanging flower baskets and flags. More at http://www.cleveland.com

Ouch! Thanks for clarifying - I wasn't sure if it was related to the earlier pickets. Hope they get that resolved right away. Here's the link to the article http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1114853464196770.xml

"This will really slow down now with the 310 Laborers on strike." When you say they're on strike... well, I walked by Pinnacle today and didn't see any picketers set up :wtf: I also noticed the areas marked "Union Entrance" weren't there anymore - are they on strike and absent from the site? Anyhoo, here's an update from today. It looks like most of the glass is up on the northern half except the penthouse floors:

Hmm, that does give the building more cohesion between the tower and the parking deck. I'm still waiting to see if they actually do paint the steel blue like the renderings.