Cincyboondoggle

Alright I'll stick strictly to the Streetcars. What happens if neither the State nor Private Corporations belly up on the money, is this plan dead? If this is about revitalization of OTR and downtown, then why not give 3CDC the $102 million and let them get really busy?

I ask the question because I have friends who fight and struggle to get around this town, because transportation needs lack so significantly. I think the disabled will come out against the streetcar plan also, because it only benefits the few.

Not OTR, well then let's see awww yes CBD.

Why do you care if I want to protect the rights and freedom to move around for those with disabilities. Does it matter why I care?

I live in California. No the neighborhood south of Mt. Washington. A forgotten part of this city, an area that doesn't get over the top subsidy from City leaders. Where do you live? Let's see you support streetcars you must live in OTR.

Will disabled get vouchers to ride?

After taking part in some discussions and now catching my breath to watch you knuckleheads moan about Ms. Qualls I have come to the conclusion that there is exactly 92 people who actually support the Streetcars. About 13 of them post on this forum, and the other 79 are relatives of the 13 that post on this forum. I have to hand it to you, you have fooled at least 5 Council members that there is broad "City-Wide" support. When actually no one that lives outside of OTR thinks this is a good idea. In fact if I were a betting man I see NAACP coming out against this. I see COAST coming out against this. I see middle class residents trying to raise families in neighborhoods of this city being against this. One of the underlying problems is you collectively can't figure out if it is about transportation or about development. Mr. Bortz says development. The lemmings on this forum say transportation. Serious question: Will disabled individuals get vouchers to ride this system? Are streetcars friendly to those with physical challenges?

The MetroMoves proposal was too big. This streetcar plan is too small. I agree with Ms. Qualls. This has to connect Uptown to Downtown at the very least. There has to be clear understanding of the future, and you don’t reactionary build a $100 million system. It is very surprising that Ms. Qualls, who is the most educated on transportation, does not support this. That speaks volumes. Mr. Bortz knows development, as long as it has public subsidy. Ms. Qualls has taken the time to understand good public transportation policy. She expresses herself very well on this. Do not do this without a broader plan. Don’t do this without setting a clear long term agenda. This streetcar plan is reactionary because a study said it could be done. Come down fellas, let’s do this right. When this plan fails because Bortz’s financing scheme is as holy as a block of Swiss cheese, then no plan will come about anytime soon. This IS a boondoggle and I am Cincyboondoggle. Feed the trolls we are hungry for more red meat. :evil:

I'll keep the insults to minimum MayDay. Sorry. You guys are passionate about streetcars and I'm passionate about people, my excitment gets the best of me sometimes. I apologize. :angel:

Let's face it. No one wants to live around "those" people. All the white males that support the Streetcars won't admit it, but having too many of "those" people around is uncomfortable for them. The claim that 3CDC and Streetcars and the Bortz family doesn't want to gentrify OTR of "those" people is a joke. What is funny is that liberal types that promote green building and streetcars and sustainable communities do it because thay really don't like black. The 3CDC, Bortz's and Model Managements of the world like green building. Green as in the most amount of green they can put in their pockets.

Since this is about transportation and not development, why then isn’t more likely to succeed by connecting bigger areas to each other? Why would a loop so Joe Blow from north OTR can get to 4th Street? Wouldn’t it make sense to connect people to their work or school? This loop seems to only make you white males happy so you don’t have to walk to get a sandwich. It doesn’t link low income to jobs. It doesn’t link low income to education. It links white males to stuff they want to do. It doesn’t link people to things they need to do. Where is the greater good? If this was about transportation then why isn’t the discussion talking about moving people? The example given of walking from the McAlpin building to Fountain Square makes me laugh. If we have a population that cannot walk from the McAlpin Building to say Aronoff, then we should actually invest in treadmills and get these people in shape. Isn’t that what a pedestrian community is truly about? Is it true that the company that conducted the city’s study is also a company that builds these systems, which seems to add a bias to their evaluation? Some questions about how this system gets paid for. Is it true that this plan uses up all the money that would build new fire stations and police stations? Does the future subsidy to maintain this system actually use up dollars that would fund Human Services? :evil: Mr. Redmond I'll meet you at the Gentrification forum. You White male gentrifier...

Wow. This crowd is touchy. The streetcar discussion is not about streetcars, it is about redevelopment. Your leaders have said that. Mr. Schneider, Mr. Bortz etc.. So gentrification is very much a part of the discussion of streetcars. Mr. Bortz has said it is not a transportation tool it is a development tool. With redevelopment goes the elimination of affordable housing. Which subsequently takes low income families out of the equation. Come on, removing discussion of gentrification means, the discussion of development should also not get discussed. Which leaves transportation. So now that we are down to transportation can anyone explain why spending $25 million per mile to build a loop is good transportation policy? :wtf: :shoot:

UncleRando the reason I post this way is because of zealots like you will probably threaten me or my family harm. I'm just a normal middle class person questioning an expenditure that will impact residents for generations. You know that the famous subway system stopped in the late 20s took until the 60s to payoff. Is it true that Portland transit ridership has fallen?

For any guests visiting this forum I encourage you to get all the facts. So after reading all this propaganda, please look at this link. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8463 :whip: