palijandro7

So did it extend all the way to Pershing? Thanks for the photos.

Does anyone have any photos of the old Clark Bridge? I live in Tremont and always drive by the two stumps at the intersection of Quigley/Clark, so I'm curious what the bridge looked like. Ive seen the postcard images and also the photo with all of the pollution, but I've yet to see one that enables me to imagine what it would look like today (i.e. If I were driving on Quigley, etc).

Jesus, how many times do I have to say that I AM NOT EXCITED ABOUT THE MOVE. :wtf: How many times do I have to say I am leaving bc a job I am passionate about only exists there? :? So please, while I appreciate the help, I don't need the condescending "the grass is always greener." What warrants anyone to say that? I have merely said DC offers some things that Cleveland doesn't. Thus, it also follows that Cleveland obviously offers many things DC doesn't. I'm not sitting here saying how cool I am bc I am moving, nor am I giving the usual "I can't wait to get out of Cleveland BS." Thus, let your imaginations run wild about my true motives (maybe I am fleeing the police?) for leaving, but I really don't care to hear them. Will, thanks for the insight on Macomb St.

If the poor of today behaved like the poor of 70 years ago, I don't think this would be such an issue. However, the poor of today (yes, I'm generalizing) have a value system that is some far removed from the middle class that it is impossible for the two groups to live in the same area. Crime rates through the roof, children receiving no education, etc. And while you note that the "bad part of gentrification comes from the displacement of people," I'm curious what you think about "the bad part of placing poor people in nice neighborhoods?" Does that not cause the same sort of displacement of the middle-class and wealthy (although I care less about the wealthy)? My point is, that statement cuts both ways. I drove through E.65 & Bessemer (Slavic Village Cle, by Hyacinthe Lofts)the other day and was absolutely disgusted with how a once proud middle-class neighborhood has turned into an uninhabitable wasteland. How did this area become such a hell-hole? Because the poor moved in and have destroyed it. I factually feel worse for these "displaced" people than the displaced poor. Now it is not only "white-flight," but there is also "black-flight," as middle class blacks are getting the hell out, too. Thus, maybe there actually is something to this "flight."

yah; I'm finished. RETURN TO SUGGESTIONS ON APARTMENT HUNTING, PLEASE.

This is the type of talk that just irks me. No jobs outside of the medical industry? Really? I work outside of the medical industry. So does my wife. So does my sister and her husband. So do all but one of my close friends. My brother just graduated from college and he got a job outside of the medical industry. A former employee of mine just graduated from law school and passed the bar and he got a job in the legal field in no way connected to the medical industry. I just hired somebody to work under me and my job is not in the medical industry. I would venture to guess that there are at least a few forumers on here that are employed in Cleveland and do not work in the medical industry. Let's see. World class museams. World class performing arts, including arguably the best orchestra in the world and the second largest theatre district outside of NYC. World class restaraunts. Concentrated areas of vibrant nightlife (WHD, E 4th, Coventry, Tremont, Lakewood, etc.). Three major professional sports teams. What definition of cosmopolitan are you working under? I am not trying to give you a hard time Palijandro. I realize it is a rough climate for law school grads and I feel your frustration. But that problem is in now way isolated to Cleveland, it is a nationwide issue. And it is not just a hiring freeze... young associates are being let go everywhere. Go get your feet wet in DC and I think you will find that your job prospects back here will be much better with a little experience under your belt. Cleveland actually is pretty solid in the legal field with several of the biggest and most influential law firms based here. I wasn't trying to slam Cleveland. I think I made it very clear that I love it here and that I am not excited about moving. I agree with everything you said about museums, night-life, affordability etc. In regards to the medical industry, I was using hyperbole. But I just don't find Cleveland cosmopolitan. Maybe this is better-suited for another thread. Rarely do you walk around the city and hear people conversing in other languages (maybe MTS yelling at his relatives(?)). You don't have many of the little cafes, visitors, etc. Call this a stupid definition of "cosmopolitan" if you want. I can't accurately describe what I am trying to say, but I know what I mean. Sports, especially the dawg pound, is not in it (not to sound elitist, just not my cup of tea). Please keep in mind this is certainly NOT the reason I am leaving. Your thought process is difficult to argue with. But, my response is that the problems you listed (lack of economic vibrancy, not as cosmopolitan, etc.) operate as causes and symptoms simultaneously. The region lacks jobs because it lacks a robust applicant pool; it lacks a robust applicant pool because it lacks jobs, and so on. The only way that we are going to see the city and its surrounding area become something great again is if those of us who care (i.e. those who post on this site) stick around. I understand that this is a lot to ask especially when your job takes you elsewhere, in your case D.C. The sad reality is that if we don't stick around and take the steps to rebuild our once-vibrant communities, no one will. My view may not be realistic; it requires a sacrifice that many don't want to make. And though we love our city, we also love our families and, if lucky, our careers and must do what is best for their advancement, and often times that means leaving the region we love. Obviously, any decision based on that criteria is not "wrong." I guess what I am trying to say is that I only really disagree with your belief that raising your kids in Cleveland may not be the best idea regarding their futures. I say if we stick around and devote our collective energy to rebuilding and investing in the city, we can, in time, reverse the course of our forty-year downward slide and provide them with the same opportunities thought only to be available in the boom cities (SF, DC, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Austin, etc.). In sum, I completely agree. I do feel like I am part of the problem by leaving. Yet, on the other hand, should I really take some job that, at least I think, I am over-qualified for just to be able to stay here? I have a very good opportunity in DC that will make me much more marketable when I return. Anyways, I wasn't trying to rip Cleveland. I was just responding to a post in which it was alluded to that I was leaving for a bigger stage, which is not true in any way, shape, or form.

If Robert had read my post, he should have realized that I said I am moving to DC bc my job does not exist in Cleveland. I clearly stated that I am not excited about the move. Thus, his smug statement about "self-convincing" was completely ignorant and off-target. Furthermore, I stated that I do not believe Cleveland is very cosmopolitan, and supported that assertion with my observation that many of the ethnic neighborhoods, and the people that comprised them, are dying off. That is not a reason to move. That is my observation (see the difference?).

I wouldn't choose a location based upon the eventual job prospects of my kids. I'd think about the experience that your kids would have in grade school and high school. Once they go off to college, they become extremely mobile (especially if they study beyond the undergrad level). Now that is a response that is productive and what I expect from this site.

That is probably what I am going to do. I'm going to Italy for 2 weeks in September, and that is the time I should be on the hunt for housing in DC. We'll see.

I think what all of you have said is very well put. I am moving to DC bc the opportunity I have there, quite simply, does not exist here. When it comes time for my lady-friend and I to start a family, we will likely move back. However, one thing I think about is what about my kids? The harsh reality is that Cleveland and Ohio have been declining for as long as I can remember. Yes, there are little gains here and there, but they seem to be outweighed by the losses of: BP, Nat City, LTV, manufacturing stuff, etc. Thus, do I give my kids a better opportunity by raising them in a more economically vibrant area? What are the odds that my kids will have to move away bc there are not any jobs here outside the medical industry? I don't know. I can't predict the future, and I can't predict the fate of Cleveland. However, if recent history is any measure, it worries me. Another thing that was understated is that Cleveland is not that cosmopolitan. Yes, there are tons of Eastern Euros, Italians, Irish, Jews, Blacks, etc, but a majority of those still in touch with their ancestral roots are getting ready to move on. I like the freshness of meeting people from all over the place, and I feel Cleveland cannot compare with the aforementioned cities. Anyways, I know this is an I Love Cleveland thread. Thus, I'll end on a happy note: In no way am I excited about moving from the CLE to DC. No offense to any lawyers on here, but too many of the people I have met remind me those a$$-holes in law school who are so competitive they cheer when you do poorly. Also, few ethnic areas and, absurdly expensive.

I probably will next week or so. I just wanted to know if there was any consensus on whether it was too far away. I'm actually hoping to just find a place that I know is in an area I like and be done with it. I have two friends who live in the area and they said they can scope out various places. While I realize their tastes may differ somewhat from mine, they have an idea of what I'm looking for. Another problem is that I'm looking too early, as a lot of people want their places filled by the beginning of the month (I'm not movign until the 25 of Sept).

I spent a week there in the spring and was there over Memorial Day weekend. I was mainly in Dupont, Gtown, Adams Morgan, Capitol Hill, and Logan Circle. The outerlying areas, such as Cleveland Park, I have only seen when driving thru, and I am thus unfamiliar with.

Definitely not that good. But you got to remember that you're getting it from vendors basically, and not like you normally would when seated in a restaurant. I was out and about Thur-Sat nights, and tried to walk off the worst hang-over in history Sunday morning. It's the first time I've lived here, as opposed to just coming during the night, and I think that made the experience a million times better.

Is Macomb St, up by Cle Park, too far out of the mix? The actual location is somewhat near Connec Ave, so I think the walk to the red line would only be about 5 minutes. However, I'd have to transfer to the blue at Metro Center. The offer is for $900, furnished, and utilities included. Seems like a great deal, but I'm just worried I'm too far away from stuff.

You didn't run across the terms "settlement house" in your capstone? No bc actual "public housing" did not commence until the depression. Furthermore, it was only seen as a temporary fix for the time. Then public housing hit full swing with the returning vets from WWII (once again, only temporary). I think it was not until the 60's that public housing began to resemble what it is today. Plus, I wasn't writing a history on it. I was focusing on the impact the housing choice voucher program has had on 5 of Cleveland's inner-ring suburbs. No way was the research earth-shattering, but it certainly shed light on something many public officials are terrified to talk about.