cyclovert

thanks!

i would love to see amtrak going into our union station. but how would the amtrak trains get into tower city? if i had to guess it would make sense to have the upstate trains switch in euclid to the (former nickel plate?) tracks that eventually become the red line. but where would the pennsylvania trains connect? and then how would they get back onto their route on the west? also, i've never seen this, but is the waterfront line ever coordinated with amtrak service? i've always gotten into cleveland around 3am and nothing is awake. but seems like if the NCH was ever really used as a train station the waterfront line would be a fantastic shuttle between tower city and NCH... so i guess this is also a question of whether or not amtrak will ever give cleveland daytime service too!

wow; corridors 1, 6 and 7 would be so amazing and seem so long overdue... didn't some of these routes exist as passenger service at one time or another? i think it'd be fantastic if NCH was the train station opening into the mall. there was some kind of contest a while ago for trains station designs in front of the mall and every one was just amazing. i'll try to find pictures...

it's only been 60 years. i think it can still happen.

so i guess this is out of the question...

i have my own fantasies of a subway and rails and magic for cleveland, but are there any likely-to-be-created proposals to open maybe a second or third 'downtown' station? perhaps a euclid/ E 9th and E18th station near CSU and one near tri-c. there is such a huge dead zone between E 34th and tower city and the chance to connect tri-c and CSU campuses would be so nifty...

looks like chester to me.

i'm nominating KJP for mayor of cleveland. we'll get your plan built.

maybe they could fill the rapid trench with the goo that they rake out of the river. then the tracks would be level with humanity.

so i looked through these pages again and i found what look like three different versions; one was clearly a freeway, one was a version invented by KJP (i liked it), and the last just looked like chester ave. i'm gonna guess, after meeting such resistance here, that chester ave. part 2 is the version they're going with. is there a way to campaign to have roads removed? we need some billionaire lobbyist on our side. what happened to all those 19th century railroad tycoons? also, i just heard a whole lot of money is going to the EPA to cleanup american's sacred brownfields. but i'm guessing this money will mostly go to places like atlanta... but maybe some more bucks for a cleanup here?

agree about the car business. so this is really supposed to be an interstate and not a street? bummer...

so you think that what, a skyscraper will appear from this rubble? there is so little demand for this neighborhood that nothing is there and what still is there is waiting to die or leave. just because nobody interesting likes the crap that suburbs are made from doesn't mean rethinking the adjacent neighborhoods to the hastily built red line will necessarily become a strip mall. ...and by my estimation, downtown is starting to look an awful lot like a suburban strip mall. what are we shooting for here anyway? i'd love to see a hardware store, a laundromat, and a bodega on one city block for once.

what is the secret part of this thread that i'm missing? seems like any advertisement of activity or interest in these places is plenty welcome. rome wasn't built in a day. but there were a lot of risky moves for caesar to turn the city of bricks into a city of marble. whats to lose on this bet? do you really think old red will disappear because of this activity?!? what do we have to lose here? be specific.

i was joking about a pretty design. so where are riders going to come from anyway? i suppose there would have to be a lot of housing and all sorts of goodies planned too. i thought this was the whole point of this project; to get people doing things in these neighborhoods. i really can't imagine the construction of a boulevard making the area around those rapid stations any less desirable than they are already; i don't see how aiming a street grid around these stations could be any more detracting for development than whats there already. if its done right it might entice the right kind of development.

like i said, have rem koolhaas design it.

why is this proposal so controversial? this part of the red line is terrible and those stations nearly invisible; dark brown tubes milling their way to unmanned wooden stations under a bridge... hmm. i don't think the opportunity corridor could make anything as desolate and terrifying even if it explicitly sought to do it. seems like this project could just as likely make these rapid stations actual destinations within the city as it could turn these empty neighborhoods into strip malls. just have rem koolhaas design it.

wow- thanks for the history lesson, KJP and clvlndr. you're great! have you read this book 'life between buildings' by jan ghel? some of it really left an impression on me. its deals roughly with the way in which people interact with their surroundings and how the move through spaces and urban environments. one example forms in the grass of campuses from foot commuters finding a shorter route from one place to another and the planned walkway becomes obsolete. anyway, with this in mind and knowing the circumstances of the red line's creation and its current troubles, today it feels really inaccessible between E 55th and 105th. i started thinking that if its route was also an arterial path for more than just freight trains and itself, that it might be a step in a good direction. please, no highway. i'll bet there are some ideas for a revival better than mine.

i think one of the unfortunate things about the eastern half of the red line is that, aside from the stations east of cedar, most stations are a bit of a hike from where people live. i wonder if a boulevard along the north and south parts of the rapid tracks would make the stations at 79th and 105th more TOD friendly. maybe this doesn't have to be too ambitious, just roads within tight proximity to the tracks that follow their path like shaker boulevard.

I just typed a bunch of bullet points and lost it. Before I respond can you please edit/clarify your post. It's to confusing. sorry about that. what i meant was that pittsburgh spending a zillion dollars to build a tunnel for their silly train seems totally useless and i see that project as their more expensive version of the waterfront line. conversely, cleveland pursuing a light rail project on the west shoreway and reusing the lower-level tracks of the detroit superior bridge would be totally amazing. it seems (in my imagination) a cheaper way of extending a light rail system than building a mile long tunnel to nowhere and most likely will be successful due to the ridership on the 'gold coast flyer.' this area already seems like TOD with the development on the coast.

Then tell the tax payers and the government to pony up! I'm so sick and tired of people saying its "Clevelands fault" or that "Cleveland is cheap". COMPLAIN TO YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS! AND if money is approved for a project, don't expect it to happen immediately! ...not exactly what i was saying. my point was that i think what pittsburgh is doing is silly. i think it would be really great to reopen a subway that is already there. it would be so cool. and so many clevelanders have no idea its there. my assumption is that it would be less expensive to reopen an existing tunnel than to build a new one. no?

i remember something about the west shoreway one day being turned into a 35 mph boulevard, or something like this. seeing as how the 'west shore flyer' bus route already connects a densely populated and largely transit-oriented few miles, i would think this would have a lot of potential to become a light rail route. i think clifton is already 12 lanes wide so taking over the center of it should be too much of a problem and this would create a lot of really great TOD real estate between W65 and downtown. it would also provide an excuse to reopen the detroit-superior subway deck to trains. yeah! who's with me? also, i think this has something to do with TOD, at least as an example of things for cleveland not to do. but i went to pittsburgh for the first time and rode their 'train' which is more or less a tiny, articulated bus on rails. and they're spending millions right now to make a tunnel for it, under a river. i think cleveland can be a lot more frugal and creative with its existing infrastructure than this...

just had the opportunity to ride my bike through east cleveland and the rockefeller houses between taylor and lee. such a fantastic view of that city. and the ride down euclid into university circle is great. can't wait to see some of this non-118th street TOD finally pop up. its anyways a really a dramatic change from what i remember ten years ago. well done!

the 120th street station always gave me such a sad feeling. i think moving that station to a busier place and getting some human-scaled projects on the western side of the mayfield bridge will only have a positive effect... conversely, wtf is that blue bit that's being erected on 118th? the images look like the kind of thing someone in the 90s thought looked 'funky.' i thought it was just generally understood that nobody could do terrible things to euclid avenue anymore. i guess they're 'townhouses.' does that count as TOD?

can someone direct me to a thread or something? i was wondering if the euclid avenue, pending success, could easily be turned into a light rail corridor? it seems like what was built is essentially that but without rails and wires. and, being that most of the US electrical energy comes from coal, is it really any 'greener' to use rail? i guess emissions locally would be improved, but overall? thanks for always taking my questions.

anyone have a ballpark figure of what it would cost to build a rapid station at W 41st?