Clvlndr in LV

I completely agree!

Thanks again MayDay. You really do have skills, and your efforts are appreciated. That last pick of TT looks like a good fit for the TT thread over at SSP.com, if of course you find the time.

^I don't think you are wrong Matches, though 10 years is optimistic IMO. I try to look at this from FCE's perspective and ask myself; Why would I offer to lease the Higbee building for a dollar a year? Answer: I get to put $40 million back on the books (approx cost of renovating Terminal Tower) and that looks good to share holders. This is $40 mill I can't get from anyone other than the county. My fear is this is all FCE wants with perhaps the building of additional parking. My hope is that they have a grander vision of constructing the cc in such a way that the future development of hotel, residential, and retail could be built on top of the cc (ie, 515 Euclid Ave).

I'm sure we would all like to see some renderings, but I fear that it will take an architectural miracle to become unique, effective, or something special. This is especially true considering they are already over budget. Perhaps if there was a new master plan for what could be built over the cc in the future, and a commitment from FCE to implement such a plan, I would be more enthusiastic about the TC site. The museum idea is interesting but don't you prefer to have our collection of museums stay in University Circle?

Absolutely amazing KJP and greatly appreciated. I am truly moved. Well said

I also applaud the Crain's editorial (thanks for posting KJP). The comments made about the WFL did come across as a little negative but as X mentioned they were not entirely innaccurate. Clvlndr you seem to suggest that this editorial by Crain's is self serving but I'm not sure from your comments what Crain's has to gain by the county choosing the mall site. Pete that is an excellent point about parking revenues.

Before ColDay comes back and lies to you ... the answer is no, and thats why they can build multi billion dollar projects :-D

What's truly rare are federal transportation dollars. There is a decades-long backlog of unfunded projects nationwide. Welcome to the Third World.... How sad is that :-(

I thought all bridges that went over water were county owned. First paragraph of the article w28th posted says it was a depression-era gift to the city so maybe it's rare for the city to own such a bridge. Perhaps rare enough to get federal dollars to repair it.

It's gigantic...and I'm jealous. Well said... everytime I go past it I'm amazed. Some facts for you: Over 18,000,000 sf of space, this includes a 300,000 sf convention facility and 500,000 sf of retail and restaraunts 4800 hotel rooms 2650 condo and condotel units Yes folks over 8 billion dollars worth of starchitect designed (Pelli, Jahn, Libeskind, Foster, KPF, Vinoly) development, and it will all be LEED certified.

Nice shots ColDay. What was your impression of project city center?

Thanks for the photo MayDay and to you w28th for posting. $31,000,000 ... ouch! Now the article says the bridge is city owned, but can they get funds from the county and/or ODOT to help with the expense?

I'm glad to see that FCE's comments yesterday have livened up this thread but I'm also surprised. Did folks think FCE was going to discount the land price to the county for some unknown reason? It's worth keeping in mind that once the appraisal is complete it should have very little bearing on the the final price. That number is determined by what the buyer is willing to pay; in other words market value. If FCE believes that land is worth $40 million they should put it up for sale and see if someone bites. My guess is they know they wouldn't get their number. I'm certainly one of the many that feels the mall site is best, but I'm also one that believes this project must go forward even if it is in the wrong location. I'm in agreement with those that see this as a catalyst for other development, and an important step in solidifying Cleveland as a hub of the health care industry. Perhaps the cost of this land will become enough of an issue to pressure the county to better scrutinize the recommendation presented them and focus more on making the mall site work.

^^ I like that guess but it doesn't look big enough for Buenos Aires. There's a city in Chile just west of Santiago - starts with a V... I think -oh hell are we at least in South America? :-D

I'm not sure that "a parade of buildings each trying to wow us more than the last" is a bad thing. Don't get me wrong X, I'm glad to see some more student housing going up and it doesn't have to be a masterpiece. Even a dormitory is an opportunity for an architect to show some creativity and effort and these renderings don't IMO show either. As always I'll reserve my final opinion until the project is completed, this was just my initial take on the renderings. :|

My take is this is uninspired monotony. I don't mind the bridge thing or the scale. It will be the final facade treatments that will make or break this for me. Are they seriously proposing vinyl? :|

^^Your right about the Sabathia trade 3231; my comment was based on early concensus by baseball pundents. When it comes to Byrd however; Boston got the steal. They needed another good arm in the rotation if they're gonna make a run in the post season and they got the hottest arm in the league for nothing. Time will tell with the Sabathia trade, but time won't help the Byrd trade.

For what it's worth; Byrd is a veteran pitcher, proven in the post season, and is the hottest pitcher in the American league since the all-star break ( 4 wins 0 losses, ERA 1.24). I understand that teams need to make moves and if management felt they could improve the team by trading him, then do it, but for F***K sake get something for him. This is worse than the Sabathia trade. JMHO. :x

^I'm no engineer but I believe with proper maintenance those buildings can last centuries. I'm getting a little confused on who the developer would be on this project. Is it MMPI, FCE, or the county which I highly doubt?

Yes it does Willyboy. According to the GCP report acquisition estimates are as follows: TC site $40 million for 12 acres, CC site $17 million for 3 acres.

^ I guess that might explain why they have a $2,000,000,000 proposal to develop a project in Irving Texas on the site of the soon to be former Cowboys stadium, and won't do anything in Cleveland.

Nicely done Peter, much appreciated!!

^^Thanks 3231 - I just read that on the GCP report. To bad, I think if that additional land was available there would be a great deal more flexibility in the design and a much greater possibility of some success with this mess.

There are a couple small buildings on the west end of the TC site that i believe were used by Sherwin Williams for research in the past. Can anyone tell me about there current use, ownership, and likelyhood of be incorporated into this project (razed)? Sorry if this has been discussed before.

^"Maybe something good will come out of this. A medical mart is better than no medical mart, right?" Yes I suppose your right sir2gees but it just doesn't feel right does it? Is this now a forgone conclusion that the TC site is it without considering the actual cost of acquiring the land/air rights and redevelopment of the old CC?