Clvlndr in LV

Seems we still have folks concerned over deeply discounted food and drink and how it could be a detriment to local established eateries. Let me say that living in Vegas does not make me an expert in casino management however I do have Friends in the business. One example is my neighbor, currently with Balley's Gaming Tech and a former Harrah's operations manager (on a side note he recently traveled to Lawrenceburg, as Penn National is a client of his and Balley's should have about 20% market share of the Ohio casino's). Here's how it work: In Vegas about 50% of the restaraunts in the casino's are operated privately and pay rent and those rents get pricey. They obviously must operate for profit which is why the food and drink is NOT cheap. The other 50% (and this ratio does vary greatly between properties) are operated in house and must show a profit (BTW Penn National is nearly 100% in house operated FOR PROFIT) or the place will be reinvented as if new ownership has come in. The only exceptions are the buffets. Though they are designed to make money they are also used to feed employees in back of house cafeteria's where employees can eat free. Depending on how many employees take advantage can affect the bottom line. Drinks at the bars are money makers just as they are anywhere, and the drinks in the clubs or lounges are BIG money makers. The only "free" drinks are given to GAMBLING patrons and they are small pours. If you're sitting at a machine don't expect a refill every 5 minutes they don't flood the floor with waitresses. By the time she comes back with your free drink you've put another $10 in the machine Some have suggested that Ohio law prohibits free alcohol anyway. Food and drink inducements were used to lure folks from one property to another but that's been over for some time and the Ohio casino's will not have competition across the street. I would be happy to forward any questions to my neighbor and we can separate reality from myth. He will likely have some interesting facts and figures as things progress as again they anticipate over 20% market share for all the new Ohio properties.

^Thanks. Do you have a time frame on the news? BTW, should I still be excited or start getting depressed?

Sorry for the bump but uhh... It's been over a month EC and I'm still ready to rock. I've checked the "real aquarium's" website and nothing new so we need your inside connection. Anything new you can share?

How true, LOL

"I heard the owner of the Harry Buffalo was b*itching that, how can I sell 14.95 steaks if they are giving them away for 9.95?"... from FerrariEnzo's post DanB is right on. As I've said before the cheap food and drink in casino's is not the new paradigm. It is typically just the opposite. All the new casino resorts here in Vegas tend to offer overpriced food and drink options. The owner of Harry Buffalo is worried about something I would be very surprised if ever it came to pass. Keep in mind Gilbert's casino will have no nearby competition and therefore no need for crazy inducements.

It seems Gilbert prefers the southwest corner of Huron and Ontario and exactly how far west it will extend is only conjecture. I myself would like to see it centered directly south of the Avenue shops but will have to wait and see. It is being discussed in the following thread: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,20680.360.html BTW congratulations Ohio. These casino's can be a vibrant entertainment option to the select cities if done properly, good luck.

Today the rumor on ESPN's Pardon the Interruption was Acorsi was being sought as a consultant for the Browns and the GM job might go to a friend of Acorsi's, some guy named Bernie Kosar. :-D

No doubt I'm a little sick. We're talkin' about probably the two best pitchers of this era and they both performed magnificently tonight. Lee pitched an absolute gem against the highest paid offensive machine in MLB and save Mr. Utley, Sabathia was nearly as good. So who do I blame that these two ACE's are no longer in my beloved hometown...?... I'm shakin' my head, I just don't know. Good mornin' Friends, Go Cav's.

How about this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&ll=41.493921,-81.690645&spn=0.015365,0.0418&z=15 Thanks for the effort jborger!

^Exactly, so which of those existing structures is most viable?

^"The parking lot of TC is the best bet!" I agree and have been very specific as to where and why on that site but this is the language from the state website: (b) the property situated south of W. Prospect Avenue, east of W. 6th Street, north of W. Huron Road and west of Ontario Street. By that description I'm thinking they must be referring to the old post office building; what else? If anyone has the time and skill to post a map that outlines the 9 proposed sites I think it would be interesting and greatly appreciated. The following is a link that has the parcel descriptions (a) through (i): http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf

Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel: Shut up! When did that happen?? ^Over two years ago, March 07 I believe. BTW I've looked at some of the possible locations and it seems that in the mix is the old post office next to the Ritz. Is this correct or am I reading this wrong?

Just to help out; Barbary Coast is now Bill's Gaming Hall. Harrah's entertainment agreed to a land swap with Boyd Gaming (the previous owners). Harrah's now owns a huge swath of contiguous land on the strip as does Boyd adjacent to their Echelon Place project. Sorry for the off topic elaboration. :angel:

Hts44121 I agree and to answer your question: Vegas is like anywhere else, good restaurants, bars and clubs thrive and the bad ones fail. There is no question that the novelty of a casino will at first drain off some entertainment dollars from other districts but after that novelty wears off it will simply become another entertainment option. If you're in the mood for good sushi and the best sushi place in town is not in the casino then my guess is your not going to the casino for dinner.

This is a truly inspirational story, thanks for posting it here.

Is this it? www.hickoryfurniture.com

^ If you both are referring to the one in Hickory... they claim to be over 1 million sq. ft.

Seal the deal as in keep the competition from getting off the ground. Punch I'm not trying to be contentious but I think this is a valid point for discussion. I've stated I don't know which of the two projects has the scale right and I get your bigger is not better mantra. I simply believe small leaves the door open where big, or the ability to grow, slams it shut. Perhaps MMPI is planning to have the ability to add contiguous space, I don't know. I began this line of discussion merely to say I think they should.

" Yes, they may build a MM in NYC on a purely speculative basis but once Clevelands is up and running the need evaporates. In fact, once construction starts in Cleveland and once MMPI announces tenenants and shows, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the NYC pitch quietly evaporates. Nashville,,, lol... 'nuff said"--- MD88PILOT I agree but feel we need to demonstrate our ability to expand to seal the deal. Just to be clear I'm not suggesting we sink a bunch of 200 ft caissons so we can build an 800ft tower. With an avg floorplate of 22K to 23Ksq ft all we need to do is prep for an additional 10 or so floors in the future. That shouldn't be to cost prohibitive; any engineers have some idea's?

Oh for crying out loud, your personal preference is not whats always best for the city as a whole. If I had my way, Euclid Avenue would look like Avenue des Champs Elysees! ::) ::) ::) Yes but in this case he is right... and your idea about the Champs Elysees doesn't suck either. :-D

Thanks!

Is it dedicated to medical devices? It appears there is more to it then that. From their website:"Segments include medical devices, health technology, life sciences, business services, furnishings, and diagnostics." Is that very different from what we will be offering? No I am not an expert but I suspect the developer (Extell) and their marketing partner (Greater New York Hospital Association) have done enough due diligence to be considered experts; and they seem to think this concept will be far more successful and warrants a much larger scale. I don't know which of the two projects has it right but I think it would make sense for ours to plan for success and therefore expansion. MD88 I agree we have many advantages if not all. I'm not sure however that first to market will effectively kill the other projects. This is where we could be victims of our own success as WPC would surely point to that as proof the concept is viable, profitable and worth financing. The only compelling reason at that point to locate to WPC would be our inability to accommodate demand for more space. Anyway thanks for the discussion. I'm just of the opinion that MMPI and of course Cleveland would be better served if they plan now for expansion. That I believe could effectively kill all other projects. BTW, MD88 pardon my ignorance but what exactly is RTP in Raleigh/Durham?

^ Finding contiguous space would be a problem and that would be a distinct disadvantage. Agreed; first to market does matter but that advantage doesn't always last if a superior product is introduced. Hts I concede there is a question of whether or not WPC will get built. I'm curious if you and the others here believe it will or won't get built? As I said before... "unless you believe the current recession will last indefinitely or lead to an apocalyptic depression, the WPC will eventually get financing. If our little "mart" has some early success that's all the more reason for the banks to see less risk in the New York project." This again is why I believe planning now for future expansion is prudent and certainly worth discussing.

Sorry for the confusion, I was comparing to the "Supercenters". For the sake of accuracy; their website says the avg supercenter is 187K sq ft and the avg store is 107K sq ft. The point is simply that this really isn't that big and less then 1/6 of what the competition is proposing. From my understanding our convention center will still host other events and I don't believe it is "dedicated"; can anyone confirm this? That being said don't forget the WPC will be directly across from the Javits Convention Center which is currently 675,000 sq ft and undergoing an expansion of 50K which should be completed next year.

I'm not sure I understand how you would expand it based on it being above ground unless preparations are made now. When they released the first rendering I was underwhelmed with the scale of this project. 125,000 sq ft is roughly 70,000 square ft smaller then the average Walmart, and a $30,000,000 investment on the part of MMPI (owned by one of the largest developers in the country) seems to lack commitment when compared to the public investment or what others are planning. The World Product Center will feature over 700,000 sq ft of permanent showroom space within a building that will total over 1 million sq ft. This will put us at a disadvantage if we truly want this to be the beginning of turning Cleveland into the world hub for this industry, which I thought was one of the stated goals of this endeavor. Before anyone brings up the fact that WPC lacks financing; unless you believe the current recession will last indefinitely or lead to an apocalyptic depression, the WPC will eventually get financing. If our little "mart" has some early success that's all the more reason for the banks to see less risk in the New York project. Being first to market will matter very little if we cannot expand to compete in the future. IMO this project would benefit from building the appropriate foundation that would allow for upward expansion in the futere much like 515 Euclid Ave. If we have the ability to add 300-400 thousand sq ft we could prevent WPC or the Nashville project from ever happening.