sir2gees

Downtown is in the worst shape it has ever been? Are they serious? I'm in my twenties, and I remember taking the rapid downtown in the eighties, and even as kid I remember how dead and deserted downtown was. I think downtown is significantly better than twenty years ago. These kind of comments are the reason why I have not read the PD in over two months. I don't want to sound elitist or arrogant, but the PD appeals to ignorant people who want to believe Cleveland is the worst place on Earth. How can downtown be in such bad shape with the Euclid Corridor, East 4th, The Avenue District, Playhouse Square, the Warehouse District, Gateway, and many other proposed projects. I know retail doesn't exist downtown, but c'mon.

Great response. You made some great points.

^I feel you. Also, Dennis Roche is right, when are we going to stop being the "urban punching bag". I'm getting a little tired of these characterizations.

Most of this stuff is over my head. However, the more I read about this, the more I feel something isn't right.

mj1403 - I’m also 27, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I know someone made this point somewhere up-thread, but many of the rankings the PD relies on compares cities with significantly larger boundaries. Rarely do you see in depth reporting explaining the nuisances of complex issues like poverty, crime, urban development or global economic trends. I'm not sure if some of you have experienced this, but I had to explain to one of my friends why NEO was so dependent on "blue collar" jobs. She thought the region was just backwards and dumb. I explained our area was once an economic powerhouse. I also told her our region was shifting from away manufacturing. I also told her Cleveland was booming city sixty-years ago, and Cleveland was one the largest cities in the country. She laughed, and said I was exaggerating. This is what we are fighting. Most people under the age of 30 think Cleveland has always been a backwards town with nothing to offer. In my opinion, if the PD is going to editorialize, they need to add context to some of these stories. Rather than pointing out the obvious, explain how we got here, and the people who are trying to change the region. Explain the global economy and how the emergence of China and India shifted manufacturing way from the United States. However, you never see this type of reporting in the PD. Sorry for the rant.

When the "Quiet Crisis" series ran several years ago, I had a friend who read every QC article. He would email me some of the articles. We would discuss these articles and he would tell me, "The PD said Cleveland ranks near the bottom in job growth" or "The PD said Cleveland is falling behind". I'm not kidding; he took every article to heart. I tried to tell him he shouldn't base his opinions of Cleveland just on the QC series. I tried to explain how our region was moving more to a service driven economy. I told him to read other outlets like Crains. I gave him articles to read about the global economy. He just was not having it. My friend is no dummy; he graduated with a degree in Economics. However, he became so discouraged with Cleveland, after college he moved. He never looked for a job in the region. He was convinced Cleveland was a dead town, and nothing could bring it back. Media has a huge impact on how people view the world. Most people don't have the desire to dig deeper than the local paper to really understand what's going on. Most people take what is written as gospel, and go about their day. I think most of us on UO have strong interest in urban development; therefore we read numerous papers and articles. As a result, our worldview is much different than those who read the PD with passing interest.

McCleveland, I agree with 100%. If things continue to deteriorate, projects like FEB will be the last thing we have to worry about.

This credit crisis really sucks. Everyday, either at the local or national level, we are seeing profound effects.

I understand jpop's frustration with the comments on "cleveland.com". Most days I feel the same way. I think Clevelanders are inherently negative about their city. Think about it, Cleveland became the butt of national jokes in the seventies and our sports teams consistently fall short. Some of you may think this is not significant, but is not. Pittsburgh has experienced the same economic decline, but the region takes pride in the city. I think the Steelers gave the city one thing to rally around when things got rough. It gave people something to cheer about and be proud of. We really haven't had that over the last thirty years, and when you really think about it, very little has gone Cleveland's way. The NCB deal is another bad break for the city. Finally, our region has lost thousands of good paying jobs. Most people of venture on this site understand the economic complexities of NEO. We understand our region is transitioning from a region wholly dependent on manufacturing. We see the positive changes. Unfortunately, the average Clevelander has no idea. All they see are then negative headlines. The older I get, the more I realize most people do not critically think about the issues.

Jpop - Cheer up. Most of these people are absolutely clueless. I think most of these people use "cleveland.com" as way to make themselves feel better about their lives. I bet if you looked, it is probably the same twenty or thirty posters making this asinine comments on every negative article posted on "cleveland.com".

I'm with you KJP. How many times a year does the PD print the "Cleveland is dead" story? Does anyone at the PD realize that NEO 's economy is transitioning from a manufacturing economy to a service driven one. I very rarely read an insightful article about the local economy, and its transition. It's always the same story sensationalized story. This is not the first time Phillip Morris has written this type of article. I think he wrote something similar earlier this year. To be honest, I avoid the PD as much as possible, especially after the NCB debacles because I knew these type of articles were coming. Do the idiots commenting think Cleveland is the only city experiencing economic problems?

After two hours of processing this news, I feel a little better. Yes, it is unfortunate for Cleveland and the region, however, National City did not do itself any favors over the last few years. If McCleveland is right, 1500-1800 downtown jobs lost will not be a death blow. It still sucks though.

We all knew this would probably happen. However, I was hoping for a international bank to purchase National City to lessen the blow. This seems to be par for the course over the last several months. It's amazing how fast things have deteriorated in the last six months, and now we are starting to see this trouble spread into the real economy. Job losses and layoffs are occurring at the fastest rate since 9/11. If GM and Chrysler merge, Michigan may see 60,000 lost jobs, and Ohio would also suffer. I don't think the average American truly appreciates how bad things have gotten since last year.

Jpop - I agree a horsetrack is not a good development tool for downtown. However, gambling in Cleveland does not bother me. I understand the poverty issue, but we already have a lottery that plays on those desires. My father-in-law plays the lottery everday. He has been doing this for almost forty years. Also, the RTA has a stop near Thirstledown, so people within the city already have gambling options. Plus, my eighty year old grandmother takes a bus to Detroit every month to gamble. Limiting gambling within the city will not stop those who want to gamble. Sorry for going a off topic.

Probably the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Another stupid news story to get "Joe the Plumber" to watch channel 19. Even the headline is dumb: "Unique Plan Poised To Revitalize Ailing Downtown". In my opinion, downtown still needs a lot work, but it has come along way in the last five years. You very rarely hear that in the media outlets. However, as usual, the Cleveland media hypes the negative and outrageous.

Hopefully, Bank of Nova Scotia purchases NCB.

MTS, What shocked me was their response. My parents raised me to be progressive and different. My parents always told me to think outside of the box. Compared to most of my friends, my parents were really cool. Growing up we traveled all around the country. One of my dad's favorite city is Toronto. Every summer we would drive to Toronto, and walk up and down Yonge and Bloor, and everytime my dad would say "man I wish we had something like this in Cleveland." So, their response just didn't make sense.

Over the weekend I had an interesting conversation with my parents about this topic. My parents are baby boomers. For the most part, my parents are hip and progressive, and very rarely do we disagree on topics like this. However, this topic led to long debate about urbanism in Cleveland. My parents really didn't see what the big deal was. My mom said, "Eaton is only moving to Beachwood...it's probably better for their employees." I was shocked. I explained the idea of keeping the core city strong and developing a culture that will attract and retain young talent. My parents looked at me like I was crazy. My dad said "when you have a family you want care about a cool urbanism." Again, I was totally shocked. Then I realized this is the problem with Eaton's short-sighted decision. This may be a general statement, but it seems baby boomers don't understand this new trend toward urbanism. Moreover, my parents didn't really understand the importance of creating a culture that will attract and retain young talent. My parents raised me to be open-minded and forward thinking. This was the first time in my life I looked at my parents as old.

I'm on board. A one year snapshot definitely shows a trend!

The more I read about this potential move, the more it seems the city and state has done a lot to keep Eaton downtown. If Eaton is concerned about not having enough land for future growth, how come another developer has not stepped up and offered another option?

MTS – OK. I'm not 100% positive, but it just seems that Eaton wants a corporate setting, and never really wanted to stay downtown. Cleveland passed some legislation and offered incentives, and they still are looking to move. I think Eaton wants something similar to Goodyear's new campus in Akron. I understand the ramifications of the move, but how can a city prevent a multibillion dollar corporation from moving. If Eaton wants to move to Beachwood there is not much Cleveland can do. I know this may not be a consolation, but let's be happy they didn't leave the region. However, I think it is time another developer steps up and presents Eaton with another downtown option.

This is not poaching. Eaton wants a corporate park, and obviously does not want to be downtown. This is not about Cleveland vs. Suburbs. Unfortunately, this is about a company that wants something downtown cannot offer.

Rockandroller - You make an excellent point. Most of the employees at Eaton could care less about downtown. From my experience, most of them couldn't even tell you what is going on downtown besides a couple places to eat. I worked in the Penton Media building for a few years, and I knew several people who never ventured beyond E. 9th and St. Clair. You are also a 100% right about not caring about or understanding the concept of keeping the "money in Cleveland." Some of these people are so provincial they don't even understand that a stronger Cleveland is good for the entire region. They think suburbs are totally independent from Cleveland. I know a few people who think Cleveland could disappear tomorrow, and their suburb would be okay.

Eaton possibly leaving for Beachwood is very upsetting. Obviously, area company leaders do not understand a strong central core is essential for a healthy region. A strong central core also makes attracting talent much easier. I guess if you're a 50ish executive what do you care. On the other hand, it seems like Eaton always wanted a "corporate park." In my opinion, they never really wanted to stay downtown. Either way, I wish this city could catch break. Think about it, downtown has all this momentum, and its largest company wants to build a "corporate park" in Beachwood. How backward is that? Where is the foresight and desire to think outside the box?

Cleveland was open to immigrants, that is how this city was built. This city attracted thousands of immigrant in the first have of the 20th century. Cleveland has suffered slow growth because of its heavy reliance on manufacturing, and its failure to disversify the local economy. Immigrants move to cities with opportunity. I know there are several cities that attract immigrants no matter the local economy (NY, LA and Chicago to name a few). However, Cleveland is not a gateway city. Therefore, to attract immigrants, there needs to be economic opportunity and strong marketing. If the Cleveland economy had experienced strong economic growth over the last thirty years, we would not be having this conversation.