sir2gees

I'm not sure if it is protectionism or just ignorance. Don't think this attitude is limited to Cleveland residents. I think it is human nature to fear what you don't understand.

Let's not become too short sighted. Economic conditions are cyclical, so today things may be rough, but tomorrow may be a better day. I'm not trying to be overly optimistic. In my opinion, the MM may is not a silver bullet, but it will brand Cleveland as a medical industry hub. The potential spinoffs could be greater than the MM itself. Also, Roldo may a Cleveland legend, but it does not matter the project, Roldo always finds something wrong. To be honest, I have never read a Roldo piece that supports a public project like this. As for maximzing the benefit for Clevelanders, I'm really not sure what project could do that. Maybe better funding for the RTA? Here is the reality: Cleveland needs to position itself in the global economy and the healthcare industry is our best bet. However, I do have some deep concerns about this project.

Ctownrocks1 - I agree. For the most part, regional economic numbers are a better indicator than core city numbers.

To be honest, I'm not the most versed in the convention business, so I just throwing out questions. What if Cleveland could lure a significant amount of medical trade shows and mid-size conventions? Would that be enough to overcome the loss of the large conventions? (I know there are some very large conventions that equal three or four medium sized ones). I can't remember the exact number, but the MM would attract a decent amount of trade shows and conventions. A new center should increase the number of overall conventions we currently see? From my understanding, the current center is pretty antiquated, so a new convention center would be a significant improvement, right? Also, someone mentioned the economic impact on scraping the entire project is less than building an inferior convention center. I disagree. Scrapping the entire project would mean Cleveland would still have an antiquated center. With the current economy and local politics, it would be another ten years before we see a new convention center. The failure of this project would give the usual suspects fodder to fight any new convention center in the near future. I personally think Cleveland needs a modern convention center. Again, I’m not a fan of the TC site, but it’s the lesser of two evils. Not having a modern convention is a little embarrassing. Our current CC limits our ability to attract just about any convention.

mrnyc - I was thinking the same thing.

Please don't kill me for asking this question: Is the TC location such a bad mistake it would be worth losing the entire project? (Convention center and Merchandise Mart) Would we rather see the Merchandise Mart build its facility in Minneapolis or Boston? I agree the TC location is a poor choice and it does concern me that the old convention center will be useless, but I think the MM could really help Cleveland solidify its position as a global leader in the healthcare industry. I would hate to see this project fail, and a year from now see it in Minneapolis. That would be so Cleveland. It seems that MM really wants to be here. How many times in the past thirty years can we say a company from outside the region really wants to be here? I'm not trying to make excuses for our bumbling leaders, but I think in the end this project may really benefit Cleveland. I'm at the point I would rather have it (with its flaws), than see it somewhere else. Unfortunately, we don't have too many comparative advantages left. Again, I'm just throwing out a question.

Cle2032 - I totally agree with you. We are experiencing a transition period that began roughly 40 years ago. So to say the city is dying is a little premature. I guess we have been dying for over a generation now, according to Forbes' standard. If we look at the city's entire history, more often than not, Cleveland has experienced decent growth. Unfortunately, for us, we are living probably the worst downturn the city has seen, but the city still has a lot to offer. I find it hard to believe Cleveland and Detroit are just going to fall off the map. Both regions are too large and have too many resources. I'm not trying to be cheesy or overly pessimistic. I'm just going on history and long term trends. I'm not saying we will see 900,000 people within the city, but we may city a more diverse and vibrant Cleveland in the future.

Wait a second. Nobody was saying that this list hurt Cincinnati. The survey looked at raw numbers like population growth and job growth for the core city. It didn't take into account there is 4 billion dollars worth of investment in the city of Cleveland, a growing healthcare industry, third best hospital in the nation, growing downtown, and several other economic factors. It also didn't look at regional numbers. Forbes list is far from scientific, so this idea that a city on the list is definitely dying is absurd. This discussion should not be turned into a city vs. city competition. We all live in Ohio, and we have to deal with some very tough economic conditions. It just so happens some of the cities are suffering more than others.

I think we are seeing some the necessary steps to correct these problems. Again, we have to realize the amount of industrial jobs Cleveland has lost over the last forty years. I recently wrote a paper of deindustrialization and its impact on Africa-American men. When I researched this topic, I began to realize the amount of good paying jobs that left NEO. Therefore, I'm not surprised with Cleveland's current economic picture. Think about, Cleveland has lost thousands of good-paying jobs over the last forty years. New jobs are not going to materialize out of thin air. It may take another 10-15 years to truly see a different region. It's no different than what the south experienced at the beginning of the industrial revolution (switching from an agarian economy). Already there are new emerging industries where Cleveland may see significant growth. I think the media has become so short-sighted. Consequently, we often overlook long-term trends.

Uncle Rando - Nobody is trying to discount Cincinnati's improvement. I think some of us are tired of these blanket statements about our region. I think many things are overlooked when we talk about industrial areas like Cleveland and Dayton. The jobs that are "flowing out like the great flood" are primarily manufacturing jobs. None of these rankings or surveys takes into the account the service jobs that are being created in these regions, and the shift from blue to white collar jobs. The problem is that service jobs are not replacing the old manufacturing jobs fast enough. I know for a fact the Cleveland's economy is more diverse than ever. Cincinnati and Columbus were not large industrial centers like Cleveland, therefore, when the proverbial “stuff hit the fan” Cleveland had a larger hole to climb out of.

My Two Sense - I totally agree the TC location is a poor location. I was just trying to be positive!

Are we ever going to catch a break? Think about it, we have a company from outside the region that wants to place a medical mart in our city, and we can't figure out where to put it. I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's hard. It's obvious Forest City has its hands all over this project. Maybe something good will come out of this. A medical mart is better than no medical mart, right?

Blaming the Euclid Corridor and the Blue line extension, and this guy is a council member! My mom has always said Cleveland will not change until the old guard dies off. Hopefully, things will change as a new wave of young leaders emerge. Maybe I should run for a seat if this is my competition.

This may be one of the dumbest rankings I've ever seen. What were the criteria? I'm tired of reading these “best and worst" of rankings every time I open yahoo, cnn or msnbc.com. These rankings are compiled by some dumb journalist who did ten minutes of research. These rankings are made for someone with an attention span of 30 seconds. For the most part, they are inaccurate and silly. If the idiot who wrote this piece googled Cleveland, he/she would have come across several articles describing the mass amount of investment in the city. Finally, anyone who thinks Cleveland is a dangerous as Afghanistan is an idiot. To date, there have been 60 homicides in the city. That is less than eight a month. After comments like this, I now know why GWB was reelected.

This is not scientific by any means, but my father, who is almost 60, says this is the most activity he has seen in his lifetime. He recently told me, he feels the city may have finally turned a corner. Again, he couldn't point to specifics. This is from a guy who has seen the city go through default and population loss.

What gets me about this subprime crisis is the media's poor job in covering it. How many times have I read a national article and some journalist glosses over the true story. At the national level, journalist attributes the sub-prime crisis to the economic turmoil of Ohio and Michigan. Yes, this is partly to blame, but how about the real story. I recently read 80 percent of all foreclosures in Cuyahoga County over the last two years were sub-prime loans. Where is the story about greed and corruption? How about a story detailing Ohio's lax laws regarding predatory lending, which helped put Cleveland on the sub-prime map. I can't remember exactly how it transpired, but I know several Cleveland politicians approached Taft about predatory lending. As usual, Taft sided with the banks and dismissed their complaints. I think there needs to be a story (not some half-hearted attempt) about what banks were doing in some of these neighborhoods. If 80 percent of all the foreclosures in Cuyahoga over the last two years were sub-prime, what does that tell you? Something is wrong, but almost every story I read attributes the crisis to poor economic conditions (at least in Ohio and Michigan). Yes, that is part of the problem. Let me ask this question: what changed economically between 2006 and 2007? Not much. The only thing that really changed were some of these adjustable rate mortgages started to reset, leaving thousands of people unable to pay their mortgages. I’m still waiting for a real story about this crisis. For the most part, the national and local media has missed the point. The securitization of mortgages may go done as one the worst economic experiments of the last 50 years.

aren - I agree. Ohio and other Midwestern state have dropped the ball. We should look to South to see what worked and what has made them successful, but we need to be careful. Southern economies may be growing now, but there is something these economies are missing (no economic model is perfect). In the short term, Southern economies are booming, but just as our economy was booming 60 years ago, things can dramatically shift. Rather than just copying their approach, we should find our own comparative advantages. For example, Southern states used cheap labor and "right to work" laws as one of their economic tools. This was the opposite of how Midwestern states looked at business forty years ago. Southern states knew cheap labor would undercut the importance of unions, and would give them a huge advantage over unionized northern states. I have this feeling we all look to south with envy. A lot of our family and friends have moved to the south, but like any thing else in the world, southern economic success will eventually falter. Leaders will become shortsighted and arrogant. World economic trends will change. We are starting to see it already. Earlier this year, Bill Richardson had the audacity to think he could just pump water from the Great Lakes. He even hinted that southwestern states had right to Great Lakes water. This attitude is shortsighted and arrogant. Look at the Atlanta metro area. I have family members who drive fifty miles each day to work. If gas hits $7 dollars in the near future, how is that area going to cope? These problems are no different than Ohio politicians ignoring world economic trends, or dismissing the rise of Japan or Mexico twenty years ago. We can definitely learn from our southern counterparts, but we also need to be ahead the next curve. In a way, the southern economies of today are really no different than our economy of fifty years ago. I agree, our politicians need to wake up, but I also believe Midwestern states will be back in the game in the near future. The last decade all we have heard is how backwards the Ohio economy has become. Sometimes it's good to hear some positive news.

I didn't think Strickland's speech was spin. What is he supposed to say, Ohio is screwed? Let's go back forty years. Did anyone think the U.S. manufacturing base would have totally eroded in a generation? Yes, Ohio has failed in many areas, and I think Ohio politicians have become complacent. However, there were economic events beyond our control. I understand to frustration with the current economic conditions, but let's all take a depth breath. Where were Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, and Texas fifty years ago? We often forget the south lost millions of people during the Second Great Migration between 1940-1970. However, these areas retooled their economies and are now experiencing significant growth. Fifty years ago, Midwesterners looked at Southerners as economically backward. Now, we are looked at as the “red headed stepchild.” Ask a Georgia resident over the age of 70 what they thought of the southern economy 50 years ago? I bet you would get a pretty negative comment. The Midwest is experiencing the same economic transition the agrarian South experienced 60 years ago. Unfortunately, we are seeing the effects of this transition. This economic transition also means Midwestern cities like Cleveland have to change their approach. This is not an easy task. Essentially, NEO has to reinvent itself economically. Yes, Ohio can do better. But the idea cities were oblivious to what was going on is a little harsh. Hindsight is always 20/20. Could we have predicted the emergence of China, India, and Mexico as producer of cheap products? Is it fair to blame Ralph Perk or Carl Stokes for not understanding the importance of diversifying the Cleveland economy when the U.S. was the number one producer in the world? Obviously, Ohio missed the boat, but most of the problems we see in these state could not have been as easily avoided as most people think. I think we should take some solace in the fact that Ohio still has some advantages. I also think a positive approach is one of the many steps to changing Ohio’s outdated economy.

Wow. Robert Weiler is absolutely clueless.

I didn't know Ted Strickland had it in him. It's amazing how the PD conveniently ignores stories like this. Governor Strickland made some excellent points. I think it is time Clevelanders start selling the the city.

X- Sorry, this is a little off-topic. All I was saying is that some Cleveland residents are under tremendous stress (crime, poverty, and broken families), and going to college is the last thing on their mind. Sometimes we forgot that going to college is a pretty rigorous process. If you’re 17 and you parents are nonexistent, how are you going to fill out a college application or apply for FAFSA? Some of these kids are so isolated they don’t even understand the college process. I know what I was like at 17, and filling out the FAFSA was the last thing on my mind. If my parents weren't around I don't know where I would be. There is a reason why children under 18 are called infants or minors. Most teenagers don’t have the capacity to make rational life decisions. That’s why I said Cleveland needs to focus on immigrants and young professionals. A lot of the issues we see in the city (any city) are cultural issues that may take generations to undue.

I totally agree with McCleveland. I have run into so many Clevelanders who have no clue what is going on their own city. In college, I met a girl from Mayfield Hts who didn't know Cleveland had light rail.

jpop - I agree. However, this is more complicated than just getting education. I'm currently writing a paper on the the loss of manufacturing jobs and its effects on African-American men. (what I found also applies to every region with a disproportionate amount of blue collar jobs). Forty years of massive jobs losses have left many Cleveland neighborhoods in turmoil. The change from a manufacturing economy to a service one, left thousands of families economically stranded. I recently read 70 percent of all males in northern industrial cities held manufacturing jobs between 1967-87. Therefore, when these jobs disappeared entire communities were devastated. Think about it, in less than one generation an entire community lost all economic traction. Almost all the problems we see in this city is directly correlated with the loss of our manufacturing base. It is the the number one reason why crime is problem is some neighborhoods, and why the school system deteriorated. So, getting a college education for some Cleveland residents is like me or you winning the lottery. There are so many internal and external forces pulling on the average Cleveland resident (this also applies to any urban community). I think Cleveland needs to focus on improving the school system. However, in the short term, Cleveland needs to attract immigrants and young professionals.

Flee2TheCleve - I remember reading the article in PD early this year. To be honest, I can't remember that exact numbers or what criteria to they used to make the claim. But I do remember seeing it. (I think ABJ had the same article)

I agree. With only 77 square miles, Cleveland proper is significantly smaller than most newer cities. However, the PD will never address this issue. The PD, and for that matter most Cleveladers, do not realize our region is changing from a manufacturing based economy to a service driven one. For the most part, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas and Las Vegas were not huge manufacturing centers, and did not experience the decline Cleveland or Detroit has seen over the last forty years. Its like our region started the race two minutes behind. Our region has to reinvent our economy to postion ourselves in today's global economy. This is not an easy task, and explains most of the population loss. I think current investment downtown should help the region become more attractive. In 2007, the region officially became a service economy. I think this is an important issues, but with the amount of money being invested in the city I think we will see a change over the next ten years. Hopefully, as we move towards a more service driven economy, the region will see an increase in population. My grandparents left Alabama and moved to Cleveland in 1951. My grandmother recently told me she thought the South would never comeback. Now, almost sixty years later southern states are attracting thousands of Americans each year. I truly believe changing economics and demographics will benefit NEO over the next coming decades.