sir2gees

I've been following the discussion for quite sometime, and I think we all agree not every statement is racist. In my opinion, people use the “race card” too often. However, as a black man, I feel like I don't get the benefit of the doubt in a lot of situations. I regularly shop at Nordstrom’s and I can never get a clerk to help me. Last year, my younger brother needed a new suit. We went to Nordstrom’s to check out a few suits…we walked around the suit department for ten minutes. The clerk looked our direction several times. He asked several other customers if they needed help. After fifteen minutes, I went over to ask him for help. He said he never saw us. He clearly saw us… I was at Banana Republic last night and the clerk looked past me to ask another customer if they needed help. I was wearing loafers, jeans, aviators and a polo. I looked like I shop at BR. Okay, this could be coincidental, but this happens 90 percent of the time. I called about an apartment a few years ago and when I went to see the apartment, the landlord told me the apartment had been rented. Three days later, I drove by the same apartment and there was a "for rent" sign in the window. The security guards at my law school stopped me numerous times to ask for identification. None of my white classmates were ever asked to show their i.d. I could go on...I usually just laugh it off; however, over a lifetime its get really old. Unfortunately, there are terrible perceptions of black men. Honestly, some of those perceptions are correct. I think what's so upsetting is that people often see me as one of those "thugs" we hear about in the media. In my opinion, when I walk into a store, the clerks see me as black male. They don't notice how I'm dressed or who I'm with...they just see me as a 6'1...250 lbs “male black." I busted my butt...went to college, went to law school, got married, and yet, I'm grouped in with “Pookie" from the "hood.

^The problem is that the assumption is made too often. My mom is a 55 year old head nurse and is routinely mistaken for a housekeeper. She graduated top of her class at Case and has 30 years of experience; however, doctors assume she is a housekeeper.

I understand automation and technology have led to the decline of manufacturing. I have no problem with that. I agree with natininja that the decline in the "robust" workforces is a little disconcerting. That was my only point. Why shouldn't we care about the decline in manufacturing jobs? It's an important industry that provides millions of jobs. These jobs helped create the midldle class. Also, I'm not suggesting we use protectionist tactics to keep these job.

^C'mon...seriously? Tell that the millions of workers who have the lost their jobs over the last thirty years. At our peak in 1979, there were just under 20 million manufacturer jobs. Currently, we're at around 12 million, the lowest number of manufacturing jobs since the 1950's. Just because we lead the world in the "value of goods' produced does not mean manufacturing is "alive and well." It just means we produce "high end goods" with a lot fewer workers. This is great for manufacturers, but what does this mean for the American worker looking for a job?

One more point...free market principles helped kill manufacturing in this country...Companies moved overseas because it was cheaper. In my opinion, free markets are not always the answer to our economic problems.

Cleveland had jobs when America was the manufacturing center of the world. Houston was the size of Dayton when Cleveland was the 6th largest city in the country. Let's put this discussion into context. All the Rust Belt cities had jobs when we were out pumping widgets, steel and cars. I'm not trying to make excuses, but hindsight is 20/20. Sometimes, I think we forget that the Rust Belt's main industry disappeared in less than a generation. Yes, local leadership has made plenty of mistakes and we can do a lot better, but the region's main industry vanished. Imagine the economic climate in Las Vegas if 80 percent of it's casinos closed over the next twenty years. The region can learn from other cities and needs to become more business friendly; however, we can't have this discussion in vacuum.

I think Houston is a poor comparison. As I mentioned up thread, Houston is 600sq miles. This is roughly 8 times the size of Cleveland and almost 1.5 times the size of Cuyahoga County. In my opinion, it's apples and oranges. However, this doesn't mean we can't learn a few things.

He's out there...lol

Again, this has been a 60 year problem. It wasn't just Dennis...The city put all it's eggs in the manufacturing basket and got burned. Yes, there have some terrible mistakes by local leadership, but this has not been the only problem.

^The city needs to a better job of being more business friendly. It doesn't make any sense...It should be a breeze to start a business here. I also agree with this comment because there is more to this than just a laissez-faire approach to economic development: "There's another "slight" difference between Houston and Cleveland. Houston has a land area of 600 square miles (that's a little smaller than all of Plymouth County) and Cleveland has a land area of 80 square miles. Why the difference? Cleveland is a much older city, like Boston, hemmed in by its suburbs. Houston has effectively annexed the land around it for years, allowing it to absorb its own suburbs as it grows. This includes both poor and affluent areas but provides Houston with a much larger tax base than a city like Cleveland which has become the poor center of the Cleveland metropolitan area. Cleveland's early 20th century manufacturing legacy has left much of the city with abandoned factories and brownfield sites. Even though Cleveland brought much wealth to Ohio and the U.S., it was based on dirty manufacturing -- one of the reasons why people fled from the city to the cleaner and greener suburbs. This decades-long trend has depopulated the city of Cleveland. The business climate that Jacoby describes does not help Cleveland or any other city but it's not the root cause of Cleveland's problems. btw -- if you go to Cleveland, while it's certainly not Toronto or Boston, is far more interesting and in better shape than its image."

^I agree... I thought about transferring to Ignatius my sophomore year. In my interview with admissions, the admissions rep told me that they didn't take students who wanted to transfer because of sports. Furthermore, I went to Gesu, a huge feeder school for Ignatius, and not a single person I knew was offered a scholarship. Ignatius doesn't have to offer scholarships. More than half of the boys in my eighth grade class went to Ignatius.

^Yeah...we had a few. I think about 10 percent of the student body were boarding students.

I graduated from Gilmour. I graduated with a class of 75, so it's tiny compared to Ignatius. My senior year, Gilmour made a big push in hockey....but Gilmour really isn't known for its sports.

I grew up in University Hts. and I have no idea what he is talking about.

The city is struggling for numerous reasons. Your view of the city is entirely too simplistic. The city has been struggling for almost half a century. The loss manufacturing jobs, flight to the suburbs, inept leadership and a plethora of other issues have hurt the city since way before my time. Honestly, it's pretty hard to run a successful city when you have been bleeding residents since 1960. Granted, a lot of the problems are self-inflicted, but some of the problems were/are out the control of local leaderhip. Also, the suburbs have benefited from the city's decline. Do you think Mayfield or Parma would exist without Cleveland. Where did all these residents of the suburbs come from? So, please have a little context here...Looking at Cleveland as diseased and "keeping it's problems" away from the suburbs is how we got into this mess.

Let's not forget the city and region put all their "eggs" in the manufacturing basket. I think it is important we have some context when we talk about the problems that face this region. A lot of the problems we see today stem from poor decisions made 50-60 years ago. I'm not making excuses, but it is a fact. This problem exist in every Rust Belt community. Let me use this analogy: NEO is the basketball player who relied solely on his athleticism to compete...unfortunately, that player woke up one day with two bad knees. Now, he has to learn how to compete with his diminishing skill set. This stuff doesn't happen overnight. Yes...our leadership has made some terrible mistakes over the last twenty years, but let's not forget how we got here. I did a paper on this topic and I'm amazed we have fared this well with the amount of manufacturing jobs the city and region has lost since the late 60's. Nobody in the 1950's or 1960's could have predicted the collapse of manufacturing. I think we need to have wider view when we discuss these problems. We should also be careful not to blindly follow the "Sunbelt" approach to economic development. Some of these Sunbelt cities were blank slates in terms of the economy. We're in a whole different ballgame.

ColDayMAn...I love your effort. I see your points. I don't think anyone was offended by your comments. It still seems weird that some of these places don't meet the requirements. My mom is a nurse at UH and she estimates 25 percent of her coworkers come from either Youngstown or Akron.

Driving While Black...

Edale, Whining...? This has nothing to do with whining or masking population loss. To be honest, I'm a little tired of these discussions always turning into pissing contests. Yes...this may be a silly argument, but it is weird certain areas surrounding Cuyahoga County are not part of Cleveland's MSA.

It's not even close...there are over 100,000 workers downtown. Also, explain what you mean by by big entitlements. You keep saying this culture needs to be changed.

Downtown Cleveland is still the largest employment center in the entire region. Please explain to me your comments about the region being dragged down by "takers."

This is the new addition to Children's Hospital in Columbus: http://www.nationwidechildrens.org/GD/Applications/News/mediafiles/NCH%20rendering%203.4.JPG

^ I agree with you a 100% about the weather. Winter only gets to me from about the middle of January to St. Patrick's Day.

I just made a list of the worst publications in America...Forbes is #1. See, that was easy. I based my findings on the fact I don't like Forbes. It just sounded logical to make Forbes # 1. Let's not discuss the merits of what city is the most miserable because it's so hard to quantify. Did Forbes do a national survey? C'mon...their last list used yearly averages to determine who had the worst winter weather. Minneapolis...with 40 inches of snow a year and average January high of 22 degrees is worst than Cleveland? Yeah, sounds pretty scientific to me. Its obvious Cleveland is Forbes' whipping boy. Every bad list they come up with Cleveland is on it. I don't want to hear the numbers back it up because you manipulate the hell out of stats. For example, they used crime data from the city proper, but mentioned regional population loss. How is that consistent?

^ It's not a reason to move to a city, but it gives the city a positive vibe. This usually translates into a better overall national perception.