Motorist

This is like arguing that the planet isn't getting warmer because it was cold outside yesterday. No matter how strongly you may feel that the corporate welfare for sports teams results in other sorts of income for the region that makes it a net gain, the people that study this for a living say that this is just not the case. I don't know what else to say about it. All evidence, aside from your feelings, says that these giveaways just do not provide a positive financial return. I suppose you can still call it an investment but it's almost certainly a losing investment. Welfare is probably the more accurate description. Additionally, the return of people to downtown Cleveland was going to happen despite any sports team or politician. Cleveland is simply following a national trend.

Gilbert is also making other investments in the city--not just the Cavs and the arena. I wish Haslem would move a few hundred Pilot employees to downtown Cleveland.... If Gilbert is doing this for the love of Cleveland, why are we worried about him moving the team? Could it be that he's doing all of this to make as much money as he can?

The number being thrown out there is $140 million. That's the principal on the bond. After the interest, it's going to be somewhere around $280 million. And as for Gilbert's "half", he's not writing a check to the county for $70 million. From what I understand, his $70 million is the expected rent between now and 2034. So they are not paying anything above and beyond what they would pay anyway to have games in the arena.

We can have an arena and we can have professional sports teams. You can root for them or not root for them, you can love Cleveland and everything about it, you can love Cleveland and still be critical of it. None of that changes the fact that the numbers on these subsidies just do not pencil out as an economic win. And you can have a great, desirable city without huge professional sports giveaways. Columbus doesn't have major league football, baseball, or basketball. Portland only has a major league basketball team and people seem to love that city and be flocking to it. I don't think Austin, Texas has any major league sports and it seems to be enjoying the same popularity and cool factor. Maybe it's because they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to make their city better instead of lining the pockets of billionaires.

If your home is directly responsible for bringing in millions in tax revenue for the city then yes.... This was discussed (by one side) extensively during the Sin Tax renewal but subsidies for sports teams, arenas, billionaires, etc... are at best a wash financially for the community. https://econjwatch.org/articles/do-economists-reach-a-conclusion-on-subsidies-for-sports-franchises-stadiums-and-mega-events

I generally agree. However -- That bridge and on-ramps planned for the E 55th intersection sure look like highway structures. That is the one thing that really should be reconsidered if this is not a highway. The intersection already works just fine in transitioning from I-490 to the street. And continuing I-490 as a surface street, avoiding the bridge and on-ramps, has to be a less expensive option to boot -- both in the building and the ongoing maintenance costs. I would also add that to have a sustainable city in the long run we need to consider the long-term roadway (and other public infrastructure) maintenance costs as part of the expense of any new infrastructure. Are the sound barriers still a component of their "urban boulevard"? I have yet to see anything about this project that convinces me that it is anything more than bulldozing a highway through a poor black neighborhood.

I don't understand your comment to the conceptual plan? I'm guessing it's the massive parking lot fronting a highly visible section of Detroit Ave. Exactly. I'm all for giving prime real estate over to schools but at least make the building and design worthy of such a prime location. I understand that this is a preliminary conceptual site plan but come on! This is wretched.

Jesus...

One only needs to drive through the neighborhoods of Cleveland to see that bad design is making it through the process on a regular basis. I've been through and around the process enough to know that it's broken. And in my opinion, not worth fixing. Just abandon it. What's the worst that could happen?

And are way too susceptible to the whims of the local politicians and the developers who donate to their campaigns. I was told by someone on a local design review board that they were told by their councilman that they were going to vote to support a certain project or they would no longer serve on the board. Honestly, I think they should just disband them all. None of them are really keeping the bad designs out, garbage is being built all over the region.

The common reading of that idea that an addition to a historic building should be distinct often translates into an addition to a historic building must be modern. Personally, I think that's a very simplistic and juvenile stance often taken by people who aren't experienced enough or competent enough to design a traditional building. And don't get me started on "of our time".

I wouldn't hold your breath, they won't be done right. Edited to add: The type of firm that they have hired or will hire to chop that place up will almost certainly not be qualified to design a historically accurate porch. Why so defeatist? Is there something about the recent historical redevelopments in Ohio City that makes you so skeptical? I think there is something wrong with the redevelopments in Ohio City in general. I think most of it is poorly designed and poorly built and will ultimately not stand the test of time. Throw spot zoning and special favors shown for special developers in and you just have a crap mix. I've never been an advocate of development for the sake of development. I would rather see an area develop and infill with higher quality developments over a longer period of time than really quickly with shoddy quality.

I wouldn't hold your breath, they won't be done right. Edited to add: The type of firm that they have hired or will hire to chop that place up will almost certainly not be qualified to design a historically accurate porch.

Wasn't this lot owned by the guys who own Platform? Great. Now if only that vacant ex filling station and surface parking could be eliminated/built upon... 41st and Lorain is becoming a hot little sub-neighborhood.

Having seen a few Knez homes up close, I'm not impressed with their quality but it looks like they are coming in around $150-160 a square foot retail so I'm guessing they actually cost $100-120 psf to build which is in the range of most crappy production builders. And these are sure to look as dated as the similarly styled homes just off the highway on West 41st. But they are dead right about how ridiculous it is to get something built in the City of Cleveland.

I was recently talking to a guy who's building new homes in Cleveland who said it's a pain in the butt to get things approved in the city of Cleveland. Plan approval for new home construction takes 7-14 days in Lake County. In Cleveland, they're averaging 200 days. 200 days just to get approved! Or to change an existing home plan, like the future owners wanting to extend a front porch or something: East side suburbs take days whereas he emailed the building guy in Cleveland 5 weeks ago and hadn't heard back yet when I spoke to him. Really disheartening to hear when so many positive things are happening in the city and people WANT to build here, but it's so hard to move things forward. I have worked with building departments in many different parts of the country and the City of Cleveland Building Department is hands down the worst. They should get rid of most of the fifth floor of City Hall and start from scratch. I could tell you stories about that place that would make you cry.

I agree. And in the cases where it isn't the right thing and since we've already thrown the guidance from the zoning code out the window, we should turn to common sense and good taste. And both of those tell me that Clinton is the wrong location for that project. It doesn't help that the design is so fugly.

Density for the sake of density and development for the sake of development aren't necessarily good things. Additionally, I think there are some problems with how zoning variances are being granted. There are certain criteria that must be met in order to be granted a variance and the City wasn't holding people to those criteria. You could just show up and say "I'm a developer and I want to build this to maximize my profits" and the Zoning Board would say "Great!". So the neighbors fighting this would just like Zoning Board to act right. And it's my understanding that Cimperman and OCI are trying some shenanigans to get around the issue. I hope there is nothing unethical going on there... It's an industrial property, the mediation costs alone make it difficult to redevelop that lot with single family homes or even townhouses, never mind the acquisition, design, and development costs. That is a legitimate argument for having a higher density project on that parcel. Plus, it is totally in character for that neighborhood. Just a block or so away there are TWO walk-up apartment buildings about 4-5 stories high, plus there are several nursing homes near by that are like 3 stories tall. Not to mention, Detroit is lined with taller, more substantial buildings and there's a large institutional use near by (the hospital). The neighborhood is a mix of densities and building types, that is the historic nature of this neighborhood. These NIMBY residents do not have a substantial argument, they just don't want more people in the neighborhood and think density is scary. Difficult, maybe, but not impossible. I think the NIMBYs do have a substantial argument against a 70 unit building in that location. I think even the YIMBYs would recognize that the character and scale of Detroit Avenue is drastically different from the character and scale of Clinton Avenue and that a project that may be perfectly appropriate on one may not be appropriate on the other. Can you cite any projects not on a major road in Ohio City that has the level of density of this project? Not the number of floors, or the width of the building, but the density?

Density for the sake of density and development for the sake of development aren't necessarily good things. Additionally, I think there are some problems with how zoning variances are being granted. There are certain criteria that must be met in order to be granted a variance and the City wasn't holding people to those criteria. You could just show up and say "I'm a developer and I want to build this to maximize my profits" and the Zoning Board would say "Great!". So the neighbors fighting this would just like Zoning Board to act right. And it's my understanding that Cimperman and OCI are trying some shenanigans to get around the issue. I hope there is nothing unethical going on there...

This is likely just the tip of the iceberg. There is a rumor going around that he has a personal financial stake in a local brewery too. Which in itself is probably not a problem unless that brewery is getting any special treatment from the City.

10 points to House Greenbaum if he shows up to the ribbon cutting dressed like that.

South Beach flair? Ugh. Because when people think classy, they think Florida.

Don't know. I would think the United Bank building at W25 and Lorain. But the tweet came from @SOLODistrictOC so it could be anywhere along and south of Lorain. It looks like they are either sharing or taking over the JC Beertech spot. Related to the Hingetown moniker discussion, Platform/Beertech/Brew Shop are the only people who call it the SOLO District. They should stop trying to make SOLO District happen. There's nothing preachier than someone trying to make a new neighborhood or region nickname stick. Especially when one already exists. Who's preaching now? I happen to like the SOLO District. I do too. Is there a pre-existing name that's a better description? Steves Lunch Heights? Now "Eco Village" on the other hand.... There is this...

Don't know. I would think the United Bank building at W25 and Lorain. But the tweet came from @SOLODistrictOC so it could be anywhere along and south of Lorain. It looks like they are either sharing or taking over the JC Beertech spot. Related to the Hingetown moniker discussion, Platform/Beertech/Brew Shop are the only people who call it the SOLO District. They should stop trying to make SOLO District happen.

What a waste of a cool site for something really unique.