Grumpy

I think most of the local/county leaders understand that the state is as broke right now. I (like most people on here) understand that the transit cuts have been going on since long before the recession, but there's no way that the state can do much till the recession is over. I would doubt that transit is going to find any money for the next couple years, unless it is from some unexpected sources (like what KJP is proposing). Even then, I would doubt that a steady dedicated source of funding is going to be possible till the economy is reasonably recovered.

Agreed. I'd rather we all ignore, or pay attention to folks based on our own opinion of the quality of their posts. It isn't that hard to form an opinion of who we should ignore.

This morning I saw what I believe was one of these old trolleys being hauled on a flat bed truck down E 9th. Sad.

That means that the station serves the the Red line (heavy rail) and Blue/Green lines (light rail).

^When I first moved to Vienna it took me about a minute to figure out the vending machines and I spoke no German. A few weeks ago I spent about a minute in Tower City trying to figure out the machine, and then gave up and went to the cashier. The machines are in no way user friendly, and they need to be fixed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the floor of that garage looks to be a good distance higher than the tracks. See here While part of the bluff is grassy, it certainly appears just as high at this point as it is at E 17th.

"Mayor Poverty"?? Thats really disrespectful, not only to the Mayor but, to those of us who live in Cleveland proper. Besides that it isn't particularly clever. If you want to disrespect the man with a silly nickname, at least come up with a clever silly nickname.

Also, the higher ceilings make the space feel larger and more open.

I wasn't suggesting eliminating the WKYC ramp, just making it wider into a street. That way it could still be used as an entrance to their garage, and a streetcar/light rail vehicle could go down it. (After some engineering work to reduce the grade of course) I see your point now as far as E 17th being logistically possible, but I still think it's a little too far East and that it wouldn't generate sufficient ridership to justify operating it with significant frequency, and that by not operating it with sufficient frequency, it wouldn't encourage investment along its route. I applaud the concept of "If you build it they will come", but if there's no one there to begin with, the train will end up only running during peak hours and every half hour because ridership wouldn't justify running more frequently. If the train is that infrequent, I would question its ability to generate development. With your E 17th route, there's not going to be significant ridership between Chester and E 9th.

I don't understand how it would be easier to connect to the WFL north of E 17th. Can you explain?

It's ok, I think we all were thinking along the same lines.

Very interesting. Last week after our brief couple of comments on the WFL I was thinking about ways a loop could be completed too. In fact I spent my lunch hour Friday walking several potential routes and was intending to eventually post my ideas here, though probably not as organized as KJP did. My preferred routing, however, was slightly different. IMO, while E 17th is closer to CSU, it’s a little too far from the Avenue district and all the businesses on E 9th to be practical. While there are employers and residents along E 17th north of Chester, there doesn’t seem to be a significant concentration East of E 17th. (Sure there’s the Plain Dealer, and some very nice art galleries, but IMO that doesn’t count as a significant concentration.) So if you moved just a little west to E 13th, you’d still be within easy walking distance of those employers and residents on E 17th, but you’d also be within a block or two of the Avenue district, and within a reasonable walking distance of the multitude of employers on E 9th. So I thought that E 13th made more sense to me. Since I was looking at E 13th my idea was to just stay on Huron till it crossed 9th, then turn left onto E 13th at Euclid, then stay on E 13th all the way up to Lakeside. Obviously this is skipping College Town, but since it’s only a short walk up the road, I think that’s a small loss. (I have to admit Clvlndr’s idea of extending the subway to just beyond E 9th hadn’t crossed my mind, or at least that I hadn’t given it significant thought, but it makes total sense for this route too as that intersection is confusing enough for pedestrians as it is, and I’d hate to make it worse by adding pedestrians headed for a streetcar, and the streetcars themselves.) The most significant engineering barrier IMO to ANY plan to complete the loop though is how to get between Lakeside and the WFL tracks down by the Muni lot. Interestingly though, this is where I think E 13th may have an advantage. At the intersection of E 13th and Lakeside, E 13th dead ends into the entrances to the parking lots for WKYC and the Cuyahoga Board of Mental Retardation. (At least that’s what Google says the building next to WKYC is.) Between the two building though, is a short strip of lawn next to the CBMR and a particularly wide entrance ramp to WKYC’s basement. Here's a pic from bing maps. The reason I like this is if that entrance ramp and a portion of that almost worthlessly puny strip of grass could be acquired, E 13th could extend downhill on that slope to the level of WKYC’s basement garage a streetcar would then be only 30 or so feet above the tracks. If a bridge were built from that point over the tracks, then a ramp descended down to the level of the current WFL tracks there would be plenty of room to make the slope gentle enough for a streetcar to safely ascend or descend the ramp. (Of course this would require eliminating/moving/replacing the current Muni Lot station.) Sorry I’m too lazy to draw a map, but if you’re familiar with the area I hope this is clear enough that you get my point.

That building depicted is not on Mall C (which is sandwiched between City Hall and the Courthouse). It appears to be on the land where the shoreway was constructed. True, but the train station, had it been built there, would have blocked the view just as effectively as if something was built on Mall C.

Unfortunately that's not a fair comparison. A couple years ago when the wife and I were looking for a house, we were seeing what we wanted for 130k in the suburbs and essentially the same house for 100k in Cleveland (Same # of rooms, Similar sq footage, similar lot size). While 30k is a lot of money, it's not enough to cover tuition for 2 kids at a private school. When we figured out the property tax rates, the difference was fairly insignificant. Besides that if you figure in the crime rate, you'd have to have more than a 30% markup in price for suburban houses to convince people it's better for them to live in the city. Another factor would be that a newer house in the suburbs would be built with more insulation than the average house in the city, thus making it more energy efficient, and in many poeple's minds making the suburbs seem more efficient.

It's always possible that this is all just a negotiating tactic to convince the St Clair property owners they're serious about having other options so that they can get a better price for the land there. Mall C is a terrible idea though, I think a lot of people would be displeased at that.

No offense, but I'm not holding my breath.

Don't forget the possible aquarium.

If the Casino is going to be built at the intersection of Huron and Ontario, than they're building right on top of the walkway from TowerCity to the Q, so reason dictates they'd tie into that. Workers along the line aren't taking it now, I can't imagine that the casino would change that. Neither does the WFL, but both can be adjusted if needed. In fact I'd be surprised if the casino doesn't become the new sponser of the trolley at some time over the next couple years and sponser it at later hours. I would agree that the WFL would be the prefered method of travel in inclement weather IF the Northcoast Transit Center gets built, otherwise, standing on an exposed or semi exposed platform like you have at E 6th and E 9th now with the wind whipping and rain or snow coming down sounds a whole lot worse than standing in a bus shelter on St. Clair to wait for the trolley.

True. But for visitors not accustomed to our weather, they might welcome an option to being out on the streets in winter. And I'm still thinking ahead to things like having intercity passenger trains converging at a North Coast Transportation Center, having the Waterfront Line making a loop of downtown and having two free trains that do nothing but loop the city, clockwise and counterclockwise. Ok, well if we assume that the WFL gets completed as a loop, and RTA makes it free, and some form of reasonably nice station gets built onto the end of the convention center, then yes, the casino will improve ridership of the WFL. However, I think that completing the WFL as a loop, making it free, and building some form of reasonably nice station at the end of the convention center would do a lot more for the WFL than a casino ever will.

I don't share your optimism as the waterfront line takes almost as long as walking does, plus the B line trolley is also competitive on time and is free. I agree that FEB might bring some passengers to the WFL, but I can't see convention goers taking the WFL to the casino.

It depends on whether they spent any time in a combat zone, and how much time. Check out the last paragraph of this article.

What are you basing this statement on? While a new recruit in the military makes very little in regular salary, it doesn't seem so bad when you consider that housing and meals are paid for on top of that salary. On top of that, the vast majority of servicemen and women move up in rank pretty quickly, so that within a couple years a soldier with a high school diploma is earning close to what the average college grad is making. While I would like to have made more money during my time in the Army, I can't say I was underpaid. While service members aren't ever going to get rich off of a military salary, and I think they deserve a descent salary, I think it's untrue to constantly call them underpaid.

Have you done something to deserve one, like risking your life for the rest of us? Yes.

While I would really like to receive a handout from the state, I think it is bad fiscal policy. I intend to vote no.

Is this blog considered a credible news source? I would consider MedCity News to be credible, they are not merely a blog. http://www.medcitynews.com/index.php/about-us/ I vaguely know someone that works for them, they are run by a couple of laid off former Plain Dealer reporters and thus far IMO have been as credible as their former employer (if not moreso).