lafont

Not all of us chickens know what "PHS" is. Exactly where are the lights in question, please?

Yes, thanks. I didn't look at the Powerpoint yet but see I wrote my proposal yesterday wrong. Should have suggested the 32 or 7 (or 9?) buses go around that water feature allee when they turn around to go back up the hill into the Heights during evening rush hour. Then, if allowed, we could wait in that parking garage building until the bus shows up quite close and the turns left on Euclid. I don't know how this gels with the current traffic pattern of the two E. 93rd portions and the possibility of turning left on Euclid to go east but I think this could work with the right traffic pattern allowed. Yesterday it is probably in the high 30s around 5:30 pm at the Univ. Rapid station - no snow, rain, or high wind, and I noticed almost all passengers were waiting inside the building. Very few cared to wait outside. There must have been 20 of us inside. Does that tell you something? :?

No, the RTA website does not really give any details of interest related to this matter. :?

Okay - I think this Cleveland Clinic connection might work if HealthLine vehicles are allowed to go around the allee, between Euclid and Chester, for their turnarounds. They have to turn around somewhere.... And then the many passengers going eastward in the evening rush hour, forced to have to wait somewhere between buses, can wait inside the glassy area inside the parking garage. If I'm gaging it right, which I'm trying to do while my buses go past there in the dark, the HealthLine going eastward is closer to that (side) side - right? How can we make this happen? If we can wait inside that (assumably heated in cold weather) space, and still catch the HealtLine in evenin rush hour, this latest "plan" might be tolerable. Btw, where in the "riderta.com" pages are descriptions of plans for the various routes? Breckenridge's PD article this a.m. gave the webpage for further details.

The doubling of ridership is of absolutely no benefit to us commuters.

TBideon: Yes, as someone who has worked decades in an area related to transit planning, I can safely say - yes - it is normal in the larger cities with coldier/rainier weather to have enclosed, heated shelters wherever people have to wait between transit lines. And we have a great many of the cold and rainier days and, now, far too many longer waits between connections, even in rush hour. The larger, most humane transit-riding environments have whole, walkable stations with take-out places, shops, etc. Think New York, London, Paris, Chicago, Boston, Toronto, etc. but many cities far smaller and less imporant than those, as well, if they get a lot of snow, etc. I don't expect much emphasis on every stop; riders can try to pace their time such that they get to a station about the right time. I'm talking people who (now) have to connect from one transit to another are forced to wait awhile between the lines. In our case just to get between a very-urban, 110+-year old inner suburb area and the city's hub. TBideon - I'm guessing you are not one who makes a bus/HealthLine connection every work day, if ever. If not, please imagine for a moment having to wait outdoors in, say, a gusty 20 degrees or in heavy snow or icy rain. For 25 minutes, without the ability to read a book or a newspaper. Just standing there.

JMasek: Do you mean you are not even aware of plans for the 32s and 9s to now connect with the HealthLine at Euclid and E. 93rd? If that happens there needs to be a decent facility for riders - of all ages and health conditions - to wait there awhile in inclement weather, which is so much of the time!

I thought maybe that corner but it's not labeled as a waiting place now and can everyone really wait in there and get out on time to make the HealthLine? Not sure what the sight lines are, etc. Actually, all this depends on where the stop is for those going east during evening rush hour. I'm not too worried about the mornings, as I don't expect waits to be too long and it's been basically palatable changing at the Rapid station. The big concern is the evening, so which side of Euclid would individuals be waiting on from, say, 4:30-6:30 pm? If it's not the side with that parking garage space in front this whole consideration is useless. The glassy area on the Clinic entrance, by the loop, doesn't look very close to me. And everyone would have to cross the street to get to the HealthLine. Not very good. Obviously, we need a heated area right by the pickup for bad weather, or at least enough opportunity to see the HealthLine coming from a building on the side and cross the street! Some people will need to sit, too. :x

Rode on the HealthLine yesterday and didn't see any structure near main entrance to Clinic, the circle at E. 93rd, looking even remotely like a heated station where people can wait in bad weather and quickly come out to catch a HealthLine or eastbound bus. Nothing!

Fine, but many of us are not connected with the Cleveland Clinic, so that's no clear improvement for us, so far. Personally, my wife and I are connected with University Hospitals and its auxiliaries in various locations. There will only be an overall "improvement" if the waiting area at the Clinic is more comfortable/attractive than the current Rapid station, which at least has heat, if not much else to offer (any more). If it loses many of the passengers waiting there on workdays will that affect the design for the new station across the street that's taking for ever to be built? So, again, who knows what is planned at the Clinic for us ever-shoved-around Hts. resident downtown commuters? If we're talking as soon as March, 2012 something had better be in place pronto. :-(

Okay; this could get interesting. The NOACA project link tells of the original plans for the garage, but what is known about RTA's actual 2012 plans regarding new bus/HealthLine transfers there? GCRTA's e-news of today is the very first hint of such a plan that's come out, with nothing said in the PD's recent articles or anything on GCRTA's website. Meanwhile, it seems terribly ironic that GCRTA's expecting increased funding for 2012, and subsequent "improved" service anticipated, would actually create decreased service for us Heights-downtown commuters (e.g. waiting outdoors in miserable weather - particularly in evenings)....

What's this? Riders, beginning in March, '12, will be transferring between the 7, 9, and 32 buses and the HealthLine at The Clinic? That's what the new GCRTA e-letter is stating. Is this really going to happen? Why there and not in the heart of University Circle, such as near top of the Fine Arts Lagoon where the HealthLine currently enters and leaves Euclid Avenue? Is there a sizable, heated station in the Clinic vicinity everyone can wait in on those horrid days? I don't believe there is, so is one to be built or installed very soon? Otherwise, why would everyone be waiting down there by the Clinic? Where did this idea come from and how likely is it this the plan that will stick? Meanwhile the commuters between the Heights and downtown have been forced to change routes so many times in the past four or five years (with all that construction along Euclid, etc.) it's positively dizzying!

"according to RTA, there is a significant capacity issue east of UC, which is why they are proposing to go back to the original routing...." Not really "original" routing.... This may have been the plan before the HealthLine started running, but GCRTA had the decency to consider all the inviduals on the 32s, 9s, and 7s and extend at least the rush hour HealthLines to the Rapid station - from day one in the actual HealthLine scheduling. Then many problems in the buses' actually following the written schedules have regularly occurred to make the whole situation worse for us.

Thanks, guys. Keith - I greatly appreciate your expressing some creative ideas. One error; HealthLine trips only go to Univ. Cir. station certain parts of the day. Other times we already can't take the HealthLine from downtown and connect with a 32 there. KJP: As to my ideal? That's simple: bring back at least as many 32s and 9s going downtown as there were 2 0r 3 years ago! It still didn't exist, in my time, all day long but it made a tremendous difference being at least a rush hours! This was A GIVEN for many decades, important in marketing the Heights area, making it appealing for apartment dwellers and homebuyers. The Heights area has been well built up for over 80 years and it's almost unbelievable this happened to us - did not receive the HIGHEST type of priority in planning. Then the problem began a few yrs. ago when these "through" buses were taken away from us, it all got further exaporating with shoddy service - two (and sometimes even three) of the same HealthLine coming in a row downtown, long gaps of 10 or 15+ minute gaps between HealthLlines, and that scheduled 35-minute gap between 32s going from Rapid station eastward from 5:21 pm to 5:56 pm (!!!) in rush hour. Second most ideal solution - fill the gap between 5:21 and 5:56 with at least one 32 bus! And, along with that, please do more to get all them HealthLines to follow the established schedules. There's been an improvement in the ones I take but not that much.

I do my job, now you people - transit professionals who are supposed to have all the ridership and financial statistics and engineering expertise at your disposal, but also care about the public - please do yours.

I'm probably thinking of this post: I think the idea is to get those going to Univ. Circle to transfer only to the Cleveland Rapid, period. I applaud this move. All buses should stop at Cleveland Rapid stations and not be "through" service stations. IIRC, having the health line route over to the University station was an after thought. Those riding the No. 9 east of E.105/Stearns/MLK and Mayfield Rd., can transfer to the HL at stations on Euclid. Those needing to get to the Clinic can transfer at Univ. Circle to the 48/48A. So there is still coverage. Clevelanders have been spoiled by one seat service on buses as opposed to having buses feed the rail lines. There were several routes and frequencies cut over the past decade. I would like to see the monies used so that the Cleveland and Shaker Rapids had 10 min. departures, for non rush hour periods, as in the past. Returning to those frequencies would help tremendously. You cannot call a system "rapid" with 10/15 min. departures Again - I don't think this person has a clue what it's like taking this sort of commute every day with the long and undependendable transfer, in all kinds of weather. On a regular, indefinite basis. :x

I'm posting this here, rather than on the RTA forum, because it concerns the HealthLine and Euclid Avenue and I don't want the thread to get buried on the more general forum. GCRTA's made it much worse for us - mainly commuters - who live in the Heights and work downtown to get to and from work daily when we all became forced to transfer each direction. Once again there are plans to make the trip even less enjoyable with the elimination "next spring" of the HealthLines, during rush hours, coming up to the Univ. Rapid Station. With all Healthlines those times scheduled to run approx. 5 min. apart, if they remain on schedule which has so many times not been the case, I realize in transferring from a 32 to the HealthLine during rush hour in the a.m. it may not be too bad waiting outdoors on Euclid Ave. for hopefully no longer than approx. 5 minutes; my main concerns are the evening rush hours.... Not having the option to wait indoors in the heated rapid station will be very bad for many of us in the inclement weather - which is so much of the time in Cleveland. It is also very important for some passengers to sit while waiting. How will this be addressed on Euclid when many will be dropped off by the HealthLine and have to wait outdoors for the 32 (or 9 or 7 or whatever) and it's a heavy rain, snow, below 10 degrees, etc? There are currently ridiculously long waits - during rush hours, yet at the Rapid Station, such as the notorious gap for 32's from 5:21 pm to 5:56 pm. Were the HealthLine delayed (happens a great deal), or we just miss it, one currently has to wait up to approx. 35 minutes at that unappealing station, but at least we can wait inside. Are you expecting us (sometimes a crowd) to be waiting outside on Euclid for up to that time (even longer non-rush hour times)? Are you prepared to construct new, fair-sized, covered shelters on Euclid so at least we don't have to be out in the rain or snow? I'm sorry but it sounds wretched - a sizable group of individuals of all ages and many health conditions - being totally exposed to the elements on Euclid awaiting the eastward buses for 10 or 20 or even over 30 minutes in 5 degree weather or a hard, cold rain. Or a blizzard. Horrible! And to the individual here who stated the rapid stations were never intended for buses - do you ever take two forms of transit on a regular bases in the really rotten weather, having to transfer and wait awhile entirely exposed to the elements? PEOPLE are what should be of the highest concern here. :x

He'd keep it turned on all the time!

It is right now. I have an extensive Euclid Avenue collection featuring everything on Euclid Avenue from Public Square to Mayfield, from the beginning to ca. 1935, and have written several articles on the street - history and plans.

Yes, there are quite a few business there, but you should also be impressed with Euclid, south side, east of E. 14th. Much of the stretch across from CSU is now filled with new businesses - mainly food-related. Then, of course, there's the stretch on both sides of Euclid from Dunham Tavern to E. 79th with new construction and renovation. Exciting.

New "Pasha Cafe" sign on Art Moderne bldg. at 2912 Euclid - about a block east of Innerbelt on south side - hideous! Did they go through the proper design channels before installing that? Here's a wonderful, aesthetically cool bldg. with cream and sea green terracotta panels - the green painted blue-turquoise a while back but more recently restored (or repainted?) to original colors, and now this ghastly, oversized, ultra-bright neon gets plastered on the facade. No, I'm not able to get over there and take a photo, but you can probably see the Pasha sign from wherever you're sitting.... :shoot:

Regarding Erie Square it sure will be interesting to see how they handle the reconstruction of most of the western twin. So extremely glad they saved the facade and a little beyond! Wonder what kind of insurance they had and how closely all the new construction will resemble the 1920s twin. Are they going to closely copy the limestone trim, for example, style of windows, etc? I highly doubt it. Surely the new interior will be quite different. Anyway, whatever they do won't be seen much from the street. I hope they clean all the brick and old limestone but I doubt if they well. Again, it depends on what kind of insurance the organization had. :clap:

Eliminate the 48 north of Shaker Square? How would you suggest someone take transit between Shaker Square and the heart of University Circle (e.g. CMA area)? :wtf:

Live near Cedar/Lee, work downtown but not near Tower City.

Well I sure hope if the 32 has to be extended to Euclid Avenue, making that extra loop, that it's not during rush hours. It makes a big difference to many of us on the 7s, 9, or 32s, in being able to at least be at the real (Univ. Rapid) station in inclement weather - which are so many days of the year. Also, many more of us are more affected by not having the 32s and others go downtown than just making the Healthline run more frequently. And, again, more important big gaps in times between bus routes from the Univ. Rapid station should be eliminated (e.g. that 35-minute gap in 32 runs in evening rush hour); adding a run or two to shrink those gaps more important than if people wait on Euclid, say, 10 min. vs. 12 min.