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[happy dance]

A generation ago, yes. In the city they could do well as general laborers, and in rural areas small farms were still profitable. None of that is true anymore and I think that's why a lot of people are more or less permanently unemployed. Trade school or a 2-year degree might help, but those aren't necessarily golden geese, and they're not necessarily available to someone who's destitute. I guess if grain prices keep going up that might change the equation for small farming, though not for livestock, and certainly not for the urban underclass.

That was some truly awful officiating. I'm not trying to excuse poor offensive play on CSU's part-- we couldn't hit layups and everyone but Cole stood around-- but the refs were so bad it was distracting. At least one 5-point swing went Butler's way.

The same is true for me, but I think that has something to do with our education level and the circles we run in. Even though "all classes" are represented in our samples, the proprotions might be skewed. That's not the case for me. I have more blue collar friends than white collar. Waaaaaaay more. My closest circle of friends consists of 1 lincoln electric factory worker, 1 ford plant worker, 2 lanscapers, 1 tree service worker, 1 accountant, 1 restaraunt manager, 1 bartender, 1 carpenter, 2 service department workers, 1 firefighter, 1 real estate developer and myself. All friends since HS. We're a diverse bunch. Only the tree service guy is unemployed, but that happens every winter (don't ask why he doesn't plan ahead or why ODJFS gives him unemployment comp every year this happens.... I will never know. Not to belabor this... but your friends sound fairly well-situated, even moreso if they didn't need multiple degrees to get there. I was talking about the underclass. On another thread it's noted that Cleveland added 4900 manufacturing jobs in 2010. But I doubt random dude from Mt Pleasant with a GED would qualify, for those or for any decent blue collar jobs. He's lucky to get into McDonalds. And we don't hang out with that dude. We don't hang out in Perry County either. I find 20% very believable.

The same is true for me, but I think that has something to do with our education level and the circles we run in. Even though "all classes" are represented in our samples, the proprotions might be skewed.

Sounds like Gilbert et al want to keep their options open. Hard to blame them. Didn't two of the Detroit casinos open as "temporary" and then never move?

If we couldn't get Strickland behind ped/bike access, good luck with Kasich.

According to its website, the visitors center closes at 5 on weekdays, and they have Saturday hours during summer only. That's a little problematic on its own, but especially when they're located in an area geared toward nightlife and off-hours activity. At the same time, I'm glad public square is replacing them with a 24-hour tenant.

No there aren't, but I agree with the rest of your post.

Much of Cleveland's "waterfront" is on bluffs, and this development is marketed as "waterfront." So it's waterfront. And if they build what's in the rendering then it's plenty appropriate, because the rendering shows several larger structures.

Streetsboro is also popular with young families. That has no bearing on what we should do with our urban waterfront. There's nothing inherently wrong with townhomes, but a large single-use expanse of them isn't appropriate for this site.

Thanks everyone for the info. I'm glad the apts are still part of the plan, because as tedders55 rightly points out, this is not an appropriate site for nothing but townhomes.

Really? Any plans to drop NCTC at this point are misguded. There's already an intermodal hub there with services that are scaleable, and it's at the nexus of our CC and our $$$ tourist attractions, regardless of 3C or CVSR or anything else. Once the CC is open, there would be a reason to run the WFL on more than just weekends... provided there's a front door on the CC. If it's not ever to be linked to the CC, then yeah, building the WFL was a colossal mistake. That seems like a key function for it. And one would hope that long term (even mid term) high speed rail plans involve better national service than Cleveland currently has. Do they plan on routing NYC-Chicago HSR through Tower City? If not, then NCTC is still a live issue, whether our current leadership sees that or not. NYC-Chicago HSR service seems as important to our future as west shore or CVSR, and there will eventually be 3C service as well. It seems like we're only planning month by month around here. I'm not even sure that can be called planning.

We need these badly, and not just for students.

Yes. A lot of things on that website would be great to have, though it's unclear where exactly they're supposed to be built. There's a factory conversion "Lakefront Loft" thingy that could very well be destined for the BP area. But I'm asking specfically about the new-build apartment structure that was originally part of the BP master plan. It had since been cut, and I'm not sure why, and I'm wondering if they have any thoughts on reviving that idea.

Any chance of getting the loft building that was originally planned, or any more rentals at all?

In fairness, some of the detail is decent... but when the front page confronts you with trite acronyms and faux-graffiti styling... it's like you're watchng The Electric Company.

Wow, I feel dumber for having clicked on that. "The TIDE (Talent, Innovation, Diversity, Enviroment) is rising in Michigan."

There are Roman columns all over downtown. If I had to pick a standard casino theme for this, Roman columns is probably it. Western? Not so much.

I remember this article. "Cleveland, which owns the land where the intermodal center will be built, eyed the property as a transportation link in developing the lakefront plan. Four years ago, the city was awarded $718,900 in federal funds by the Federal Transit Administration to plan an intermodal facility, Brown said. But the money sat unused because all the talk of lakefront development or a new convention center never led to any concrete plans. Until now. *** Half of the federal earmark funds, which are administered by RTA, expired two years ago and the other half expires June 30, which prompted the RTA board on Tuesday to give the money to Cleveland. The city will provide a 20 percent match, so about $432,000 will be available to prepare a plan and preliminary design." So talk of a new convention center, planned since 2007, never led to any concrete plans for NCTC "until now." Meanwhile, half the federal planning grant for NCTC expired... during the time MMPI was planning the MM/CC project, all the while insisting that rail connections to the facility were of little import. Had MMPI been on board all along, the MM/CC and NCTC could have been developed in conjunction with each other, as they should have been, and at far lower cost to local taxpayers. Now it's unclear when or if NCTC will ever happen. The only thing that's clear is that it cannot be an extension of the mall or the CC. It has to hide around the corner and link up to the CC with a long hallway, per the diagram in the article.

The young people who show up at Kasich events probably do share his vision. Sampling error.

Mark Falanga. He was keynote speaker at the Midtown Inc 2009 annual banquet and he took questions. My question was whether they planned for any rail connectvity and the short answer was no. He emphasized that the main entrance is on St. Clair, while the north face begins and ends with windows. He also said he considered their target market to be rail-averse.

The problem is that all our recent lakefront investments are being treated as abstract sculptures by this design. And the waterfront line is treated like a child's train set. I asked MMPI about this and they said it was inconceivable that convention-goers might arrive from the airport by train, even though we already spent millions to provide that opportunity. Maybe a front entrance isn't in their budget right now, which is fine I guess, but MMPI is in charge of this thing for decades. It would be nice to see a plan that involves more than a viewing area for the waterfront. We didn't build all that stuff to be gawked at from afar.

Interesting indeed, and you make some good points. Frankly I think we need to do more to bust up the current power structure. Hopefully the new county regime will have an effect. But the election results weren't positive. Urbanists like Ronayne and Levin lost to the old guard, and even the young people who made it in were thoroughly groomed and vetted. It's not midwesternness that's holding us back. It's leadership. We need to mount an opposition to Kasich and his kind, but before we can do that we need to build a youth movement around here. Start with precinct committee seats. Show up to ward meetings and take them over. Ready... go!

Good thinking, forgot about that. That's been my chief concern about this plan from the beginning. MMPI is so obsessed with their northward windows that they're willing to permanently prevent direct rail access to the facility, as well as any possible linkage with the attractions those windows overlook. This isn't their own money they're playing with. The county shouldn't allow them to cut off the CC from the lakefront, or to scuttle NCTC.