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Is this the building with the graffiti that says "Droids?"

I was referring only to the fire, not to any of the subsequent demolitions. Whatever our opinion of the group I do think they've adhered to good design standards in everything they've built there. This has softened my opinion of the project over the years. Other nearby cities could learn a lot from Columbus in this regard.

I agree, that's a prohibitively high fare. Whatever we do it needs to have fares that make it a competitive option to someone who has already sunk money into a car. By that I mean you can't tell them to compare all the ownership costs etc. The math needs to be obvious to the average potential rider, so the Cle-Cin fare should be no more than $50... preferably much less.

I watched those bars burn down. It wasn't just Papa Joe's, it was an entire block. Qui Bono? Those bars' refusal to sell had held up the Campus Partners vision for too long. Something had to be done. This was the feeling in the air at the time. No one knows what actually happened. It was just very convenient that the bars all burnt down right at the height of this conflict over whether they should continue existing. I like what's been built there since, but what was lost was organic and irreplacable. I'm not sure a "transformation" of South Campus was ever necessary.

For new retail buildings, ADA requires that wheelchairs have ample space to rotate 180 degrees. I'm not certain if this also applies to new train stations but I imagine it would. This isn't a huge deal, but it does mean you can't make things too compact.

Speaking of decrepit fountains, they have started running small amounts of water again in the NE quadrant. This seems pointless unless you really like mosquitos. I'm not reaching into that murk to pull weeds, but I'm still doing it when it's dry.

My Warren memories are from the 90s and later. I never got to see it as a thriving city. I agree it's increasingly becoming a suburb of Cleveland, and I think a rail connection would help it out a lot. At this point, proximity to Cleveland is the best thing Warren has going for it commercially.

A mixed-use psych ward? Really? High-security installations don't mix well with anything. It could be a psych ward or a place where they develop new fruit roll-up flavors... either way, it is off limits to everyone and that's the problem. It adds a pedestrian dead zone to a street already struggling with them. Euclid Avenue is not exactly on the way to the beach. If we want pedestrians here we have to entice them with the road itself, not the destination. If there's a beach at the end of it, a road in Florida is probably going to see continuing positive developments no matter what planning mistakes occur. I'm not against psych wards. I'm against building anything on Euclid that doesn't fit the plan inherent in the BRT. We all have a clear idea what was being sold at the time. This ain't it. This mental hospital will be a big inert cinderbrick of a structure surrounded by all the layers of KEEP OUT they can think of. We've already established that Euclid doesn't currently have an atmosphere encouraging pedestrians and residents. We aren't trying to preserve a neighborhood that would be hurt by these projects, we're trying to preserve the chance to build one. No, putting a psych ward at 55th wouldn't do much harm to the existing situation for pedestrians. But it would do immeasurable harm to any potential improvements to the situation.

I'm from Warren too. There are a lot of people on UO from that general area... most no longer live there, but some do. The place has a lot of potential and a lot of urbanity still there. It always felt a decade or so behind everywhere else, as if surrounded by some time dampening force field. They're still in full sprawl ahead mode pretty much. But Warren and Youngstown have both been working on their downtowns recently. I lived just up Mahoning Ave a few years ago, and I used to love walking along the river into that new park they built, with the Roman amphitheater. It's about the best designed park I've ever seen. Good job Warren. From down there, you can see the storefronts across the river and it's a great scene. The other view is a grand staircase leading up to the courthouse, a large church and a plantation-style mansion. The park has done a lot for downtown, especially since they started having concerts in it. I think they're pretty frequent now. It's worth looking up something there you'd want to listen to and heading out just to see the place. Mostly cover bands but I think they have some live polka too. It's only an hour from Cleveland.

Excellent analysis KJP. I had hoped for more from them but sour grapes is what we're getting. Each side would like people to think the race is already over in their favor, just like during the site selection here.

I spoke with someone at the city planning commission yesterday. They were kind enough to hear me out and said they'd pass along my concerns. The person I spoke with was unaware of either of these stories, including the mayor's announcement, and thought I was talking about the PD story from a couple Sundays ago. They didn't show their hand as to where they stood personally on this site choice. They raised the issue of we gotta have something, and I raised the issues I've raised here. I used W25th as a comparison. South of Bridge it has street life, north of Bridge it has a hospital and senior housing. That point seemed to register somewhat. Then again, as X says, this might be an issue best brought to others. I encourage everyone to contact whomever they can contact to get this turned around. Perhaps after the holiday.

I never realized my optimism for Midtown was so unique. It appears I'm certifiably insane. I think there is immediate need for residential there, particularly for college students and healthcare workers, and many pieces are already in place there for a thriving youth-oriented mixed use district. I also think if the prospects for Euclid Ave were known to be this dark, building the BRT was an enourmous and tragic mistake. That money should have gone elsewhere. I strongly disagree that there is a ton of potential neighborhood land along Euclid. It's a lot less empty than people seem to think. Many of these awful structures were built somewhat recently, that's the sad thing. There's really no hope of getting them torn down. The street is empty of pedestrians and businesses to serve them, but it's far far far from being empty of buildings. They're just the wrong buildings, with the wrong roles in society to have them lined up along our new BRT. How many people work at the sewer district HQ, at 40th? I walked by there every day, never saw a single person outdoors. Never saw one inside either, because they put stuff along every window to cut themselves off from their surroundings. They should have told the architect not to put windows and saved some money. Workplaces are not the answer. We need things that either contain or serve residents. Anything that is forbidden to residents should be forbidden to Euclid Avenue. This area around 55th is about the only open stretch we have left. Sure there are scattered parcels elsewhere, but nowhere that isn't already hemmed in by institutions and other 9-5 stuff. The area closer to 79th has more going on, while the area from 55th to downtown is almost entirely filled with anti-pedestrian structures. There's one restaraunt and one convenience store for 20 blocks, and that convenience store mostly just sells cheap porn.

^ I see a whole bunch of hedges and walls and fences along that street. As predicted, no pedestrians either. There's no pedestrian activity in the middle of a beautiful day. I think I see one person walking around. The housing around there isn't bad, but the style is semi-rural. The commercial stuff is all 1-story and devoid of visible patrons. Nothing, absolutely nothing, appears to be mixed use. If it weren't sunny, that picture would be kind of depressing. I don't see anything along that street that makes me think the developments in question will be anything but destructive to Euclid Avenue. Nice street though. Just needs some people on it. Let's not make the same mistakes Ft. Lauderdale did. They can overcome planning mistakes with sunshine, we can't.

Sorry, one more thing: Keep reading that Midtown plan. Read the long version. It includes a specific proposal for that site which clashes significantly with the MMUD-1 concept. Also, look into what the City's actual zoning is for that parcel. Despite "MMUD-1" the Midtown Inc plan is to encourage mixed use development only from 71st to 79th... where the senior housing is apparently going in. The rest of Euclid is to be a business park.

You got it buster. Have a great holiday everyone!

I'm with sir2gees on this. The point isn't "good jobs or money". Whether you have a decent job or any money at all does not preclude you from being a member of a civil society. This is about how you conduct yourself as a member of society. Whether your education is taking you to the places you want to go or if you still encounter ingnorant people in life should not be relevant to whether or not you are a functioning member of a civil society. On my end, and others', it sounds like people should enjoy poverty and inequality. Neighborhood choice, access to employers, safety, school quality, the whole nine yards... if you have it, good for you. Smile as you pass. If you have none of these things, good for you. Smile as you pass. History indicates that the kind of inequality Cleveland continues to experience, coupled with an insistence by the "have's" that the situation is natural and positive, and that any complaints from the "have nots" should be focused back on themselves... well, these things lead to monuments in Hough and staggering exoduses that we can muse about for days. That's my belief; I realize it's a belief and not scientific fact.

But the BRT doesn't go to any of those places in the Heights, so it doesn't factor into too many of those professional commutes. What does the Clinic do that other hospitals don't, which results in a unique amount of not-retail and not-residential all around it? Out of 100,000s of employees, hundreds use transit? I view that ratio somewhat negatively, to say the least. Please help me understand, so I can drink less tonight. No, I do not believe development must, or can, be sequential like that. Jobs exist in abundance two miles to the east and west of 55th street. Again, if residential wasn't ever planned for Euclid, why the BRT? What's still lacking is quality urban retail/residential amenities in this area. Are you saying that living next to a mental hospital or "senior housing" (those towers on W25th are "senior housing") is desirable and will one day increase residential demand? On what grounds? Because people work there? People work in slaughterhouses, but they're not conducive to residential on any timeline. Neither is this. ... I read and write very quickly, but I'm getting worn out here today... this has been eminently enjoyable, thank you all... I must now go mourn for Midtown...

That section of Euclid Avenue is already destroyed. you need to look at the fact that 500 people will be driving to that employer everyday and catering to any ameneties around there. Without jobs there, people will not go there. I really do not see the evil in having this on this site. There needs to be a draw to the area befor it develops resedentially and with retail. I need a beer. I know a ton of people who commute to jobs in the city, and they are 100% against patronizing local businesses. They don't want to be out of their cars in these areas, and given the current shortage of health care workers, their employer will make sure they're happy in this regard. Hospitals do not spawn residential and retail... if they do, what the hell is going on around the Clinic? It's been there for ages, employing zillions over that time, and look at the area around it! This is not the kind of traffic that helps an urban neighborhood. This only hurts, and it's especially bad here because there were so many high hopes for the corridor. Help me understand where you're coming from. In what way is BRT a commuter line? It was never intended to be. Do you really think a significant portion of these workers or hospital visitors will utilize the BRT? Are you suggesting that Lutheran helps W25th with its stream of visitors? This is not how I see things working out in practice... at all. Private institutions like hospitals are anti-pedestrian. If you want to see more residential in an area, why simultaneously support placing something there that people don't want to live around?

This facitility is a bad fit for any transit-rich area. There are greenfields all through this city, including several within a mile of this wildly inappropriate site. If there was never any chance of developing neighborhoods on Euclid, why was the BRT built? If it never needed stops on Euclid between downtown and UC/EC, it's wholly redundant with the red line. This is not the bill of goods we were sold in conjunction with that project. Cardinal rule: If it's anti-urban, and it's not the Cleveland Clinic, let the burbs keep it. Addition is subtraction, if it wastes a sunk cost or if it permanently displaces something that would have been more gainful.

The positive spin is appreciated, but none of that is likely. Hospitals prefer surface lots. Best bet is to keep them off Euclid where we just built.. too late. Hospitals (especially in bad neighborhoods) tend to have on-site food service because they know their typical employee doesn't want to be out in the ghetto. So forget this thing spawning restaurants. There needs to be more residential to get more restaurants, and that possibility just went out the window. This hospital will likely bring an existing workforce in (isn't it moving in from a suburban location?), and these are people who are flat-out against riding transit. How does a BRT connection between downtown and uptown help them with their commute anyway? They will drive and they will expect to have hassle-free parking. That's why ANOTHER hospital is such a horrendous thing to put next to the new transit system we just freaking built. This project should be stopped.

Something about the exception proving the rule. And without going into detail, I may be blacker than you think. A lot of the people I'm talking about can't move to the burbs, can't afford tuition, none of that. What separates you from them is that your parents had good jobs and money? Whose point are you trying to make? Advanced education isn't necessarily a good buy right now for anyone regardless of race. But to deny that past segregation is the defining factor in Clevleand's current socio-economic layout is to pretty much keep the east side looking like this forever. Change needs to happen. Step one is admitting there was and is a problem. Resentment is building once again due to the recession. Get some teachers in these schools, with outside money, before telling impoverished taxpayers the problem is all in their heads.

I repeat... destroyed. You tell me where the "good" development will happen now. Anti-pedestrian black holes will now be interspersed from downtown to uptown so densely that there's no incentive to develop anything resembling an urban neighborhood in Midtown. This is what I warned about earlier.

^ That too. Jeeminy Christmas... this is how serious our leadership vaccuum is. Euclid Ave is being destroyed before our eyes. Wow.

Everyone in charge in this town should be yanked off stage with a big ol' hook. We've just witnessed some truly devastating incompetence.

This is absurd. I am appalled. We built the Euclid Corridor for nothing.