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Can't watch them right now, but love the idea.

Agreed about the "just a bar" option not being there for the Agora right now. This is why I'm so dead set on making sure residential and complimentary businesses get built in that area. More realistically... that the area is reserved for such while we still have the chance. The Grog Shop is definitely smaller, but the Beachland is comparable. Remember that a lot of the Agora's building is not part of the venue itself. It has the same features as the Beachland, including a smaller stage for smaller acts. In fact the Agora has small local acts in there all the time, or at least they did recently... I have a feeling the summer closure has more to do with cleaning up the Jigsaw mess and with not having a neighborhood around it to draw on like the other two do. I really don't think it's anything unique to the Agora as a venue. Isolate either of the other places and they'd have similar problems. Also, it is not typical for the Agora to do this. It may not be a big moneymaker but it is undeniably a big draw. You should have seen the (irritating) crowd for the Insane Clown Posse show. Black Keys... although apparently they're never coming back due to Jigsaw issues. Flaming Lips, anyone? I don't think that one was in the summer, but wow did that block light up with people. If you spent some time near the Agora in recent years, for the big shows and the little ones, I don't think anyone would poo-poo it like this. It is fully legit, and I wish the community would step back and reexamine its cultural value before it gets swept away. Interesting point, and something to consider. There's also an Arab food "district" around 117th and Lorain. Maybe this guy thought the east side was lacking, or maybe as X said he's looking to the hospitals for business.

On the Agora: I'm glad the Jigsaw misadventure didn't do any more damage than it did. Very sad they'd close for the summer... if only there were a small entertainment district around it to add some summer foot traffic... Beachland and Grog Shop aren't closing for the summer, so it's not an industry thing. It's a Midtown thing. Building a research park nearby is not going to help this situation. It only will further isolate what should be viewed as a premier attraction for this city. That's right, we're the home of Rock & Roll, but we're going to develop a sterile environment around our most venerable rock club as if it's not even there. Madness. On the grocery store: That is the worst urban zoning code imaginable. Wow. Let's examine: "a grocery store is not permitted in a Multi-Family District" "frontage landscape strip... a 6’ width is required along the parking lot" "parking spaces shall be at least 180 square feet and accessory uses shall be no less than 10’ from the side street line" All these bad decisions we keep complaining about have been required by Cleveland law. If we're going to keep those laws on the books there's no sense in trying to redevelop anything. The zoning code must change. It must change and it must change NOW. It is the A#1 overwhelming reason the wrong things get built here, in the wrong manner and in the wrong places. We have got to do something about this and it is urgent. Extremely simple, but urgent.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/06/rta_construction_manager_charg_1.html RTA construction manager Faisal Alatrash charged with taking kickbacks Posted by Peter Krouse, The Plain Dealer June 10, 2009 11:53AM CLEVELAND — A Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority construction manager was charged with taking kickbacks from contractors and requiring prospective contractors to do free repairs to his home. ......

My fingers are crossed too. I fear that returns may be limited until that kind of development takes place at the transit system's hub, instead of along its spokes. My global theory remains that Cleveland was designed to function a certain way, with downtown and the transit system and the neighborhoods each playing defined roles and filling defined needs. Either those entities continue filling those needs or the whole thing is dysfunctional, which means the coolest bar/restaurant scene on the planet cannot save it. That is the essence of TOD. The transit, as well as the downtown it all goes to, must be fully operative. Then you have something to sell.

Strap I think you're right but I think change is achievable. Why would there be a market premium for transit accessibility when the transit system has so many holes in it, and it takes you to a downtown that has no major retail? If we offer TRUE urban living, all of it, it won't be that hard to sell. We just refuse to do that, and the market has spoken on that approach. People aren't willing to put up with the urban negatives, which Cleveland has a lot of, when those negatives aren't offset by urban positives like being able to take transit to a place that offers competitive retail. TOD presumes a transit system that can take you somewhere relevant to your daily life, not just to downtown parties that have to end by 1230 or you can't get home. TOD also presumes that its residents will have a reasonable shot at going car-free. Until we can offer that, we don't have a functional city to sell, and we look naieve by pretending we do. If market forces are against you, it's not the market's fault. It's your product's fault. Your product has to match the market... you can't wait around expecting the market to eventually validate a product that's not competitive. That will never happen. If you build it, they will come. If you don't build it, don't ask why they aren't coming.

I agree with every post so far. I would add that Ohio is fashionable to bash, in a way that just never happened to non-Detroit Michigan. I don't know exactly how it began, but I would attribute a lot of it to 60s-70s anti-Cleveland humor that was never effectively addressed. If people had instead done that to Texas, the Texans would have marched across state lines and started randomly punching people in the face. Not us. We meekly laugh as if we're in on it, then sidle away. When steel and automotive took a dive in the early 80s, that's probably what extended the scorn to the rest of Ohio. Suddenly, other states had a bunch of angry Ohioans moving in. Their tales of woe established Ohio as backward and hopeless.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info. Maybe Akron is something to consider if we ever get to install a new high speed system.

If it's already the "3-C and D" why not just include Akron and Barberton? I don't think it's that much more out of route than Dayton is, and then we could have a nice jingle like "A-B-C-C-C-D me, that is how I get to thee."

I believe you are 100% correct. The SWC continuum is much more fun to play with though, compared to some silly ol' bright line rule.

Three Cent Fare, you've clearly read the cases and your argument is sound. I think the distinction here is that it's not an interpretation of the general police power, it's an explicit constitutional grant which explicitly overrides other constitutional grants. The extraterritorial effect is that if you live extraterritorially, your employment options are lessened, and the statewide concern is promoting employment-- the state has an income tax while many municipalities don't. That last part I totally made up, but I've seen this Court use even crazier reasoning to find "statewide concern." I like the decision and here's why: I believe that eliminating home rule is the first step to regionalism in Ohio. Home rule has been the primary lever of balkanization and sprawl. As illustrated in this and other decisions, Ohio's home rule is not structured to benefit central cities (nor is our Supreme Court). It's structured to encourage as many tiny independent governments as possible. The more power your little town can have, the more incentive there is to establish one and to perpetually refuse annexation or merger.

Good call, Hts44121. I think Pfeifer's reading is correct. They were way off the mark when they denied Cleveland's attempt to impose stricter predatory lending laws, but this decision (probably because Pfeifer wrote it) makes a lot more sense. Employment matters are not matters of local self-government. Simple enough. I wrote a paper on the origin of home rule in Ohio, analyzing the debates at the 1912 constitutional convention from which it came. The whole thing was largely a smokescreen for the prohibition issue. There were secondary reasons for wanting home rule, chief among them being Progressivism's fetish for the most direct democracy possible. There was also discussion of allowing popular "recall" of unpopular judges-- and of specific judicial decisions. But home rule also meant that the cities, who didn't want prohibition, could opt out of it. The rural delegates were on a mission to ban alcohol and neither side trusted the other. Obviously, national prohibition settled that issue a few years later. But we're still stuck with an incomprehensible home rule regime, born of urban-rural cultural differences from 100 years ago. If you read the debates, it's clear that none of the delegates understood what they were voting for, and some of them may have been duped.

^ We live in a world that has bulldozers. We can fix this.

That sure is a lot of concrete. Are they trying to recycle the old park's fixtures? How green of them. I don't know that a park needs to be digital or interactive, but this barely even looks like a park. Every bit of foliage looks rationed and the trees look like uninvited guests. I'm sorry, kind sirs, I don't like it.

I never understood that St. Luke's Point idea... or any of the single family woodframes they keep putting up around here. It sure as hell ain't TOD, since its only claim to "density" is having smaller yards than the burbs, so when it's done next to a rapid stop it's that much more infuriating. What's the appeal? Why do people keep building those? Here's our move-back-to-the-city pitch: "What you need is the same type of house, but with a smaller yard than you already have. Nothing more urban than that. We'll be waiting. Just give us a call."

freethink I totally agree. We've got to fix that awkward dead-end, especially considering where it drops you off. Clearly 490 is an extension of 90 from the west, and it shouldn't end like that. As it stands, everyone who wants to get on 90 from anywhere near there has to get on 55th and creep down it. This leads to frequent traffic jams, sometimes from north of Woodland down to 490. Sometimes it gets hairy going northbound too. Traffic like this does not just hurt suburban commuters, it hurts inner city industrial commerce in a big way. Business disruptions (and failures) can occur when trucks get held up in that mess. Industry flourishes where there's access. It's not just about tax incentives, it's also about the reliability of day to day operations. Keep in mind this is an area where people come right up to your car window and knock on it, asking for stuff. We really don't want an Interstate dead-ending there... and we don't want people getting trapped there, not even in broad daylight. I don't care where you're from. On a bad day it's like being in a zombie movie.

But that's what us young'uns do! We tempt you into becoming a socialistic state. Don't worry, you always win.

I see some older housing in those images, but nothing about it seems fair. A main premise of the OC is that substantial redevelopment is needed here, for the residents' sake as much as everyone else's. However, I concede that it won't really do much for the residents. Promoting it along those lines (the stupid name for example) does a disservice to them and to the project. The only thing it might do for the area immediately around it is replace decrepit factories with something that's operational, which at least looks better. I think the OC will primarily help the communities at either end, University Circle and the near west side. It will also shorten some west side commutes, but I see that as a minor tangential benefit. Unfortunately if that benefit is used to promote it, the project starts sounding very anti-urban. But I don't think it is. I reserve final judgment until I see an actual plan, but in general I think it's worth spending money on, and most of its benefit will be within city limits.

Yes, as illustrated in his proposal diagrams and in those photos. I think the only issue we differ on is how much biotech or other industry would ever be housed in that sort of arrangement. Having some expertise in security and hazmat, I'd suggest the answer is little to none. I believe it was the Offspring who once said you gotta keep em separated. "Mixed use" can't ever mean putting a metal stamping operation in (or near) an apartment complex, or the very concept of mixed use will be discredited. This is why I'd prefer to focus the Opportunity Corridor entirely on hi-tech industry and bioscience, while putting the population density elsewhere. I'm all about mixed use, but we certainly wouldn't want to test jet engines or breed mutant viruses in the middle of a residential/commercial/office development. Do we? I'm not sure it would be legally or commercially viable even if we did want that. Is that what you mean by mixed use? It's not what I mean by mixed use. Part of the reason the OC section of town is so screwed now is that factories and houses there were thrown up willy-nilly amongst each other, in such a way that they both reduced each others' value. I am NOT suggesting a suburban-style total separation of everything... merely a separation of industry and secret research from everything else. I think that makes our industrial and secret research zones far more marketable, than would giving them noise and chemical restrictions to protect adjacent condos. With industry happy in its little home, I wholeheartedly agree that everything else should be stacked and packed as densely as possible.

I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But someone has indeed made such a proposal and is attempting to run with it. Your vision for OC, as detailed above, is not far off of my vision for EC. Quite similar, really. Obviously your rail restructuring plan is particular to the OC area, but the TOD aspect of your proposal seems widely applicable.

KJP, love the proposal but gotta ask-- would you consider updating the development aspect of it to apply to Euclid Corridor instead of Opportunity Corridor? I just can't fathom putting industrial compounds on Millionaires' Row while adapting a 100-year factory zone for upscale residential. Seems backwards. Seems like it would cost billions more in the long run than would flipping the plans and sticking with the historical character of each area. For all its problems, Euclid Ave has about 10x the chance of looking like those pix than Central/Kinsman ever will.

This isn't about impressing dignataries, this is about my drive from Chesterland is too far. "But sir, we have employees on the west side! What of them?" "Only the awkward question, only the foolish ask twice. Now get me some coffee."

I-271 is a world-class space? Manhattan is nothing like I-271, so is Manhattan not a world-class space? Apparently I'm way too dumb to run a corporation... I can't even figure out what their words mean.

That's a nice one.

Delightful. Now downtown will have a much better view of the McDonalds on 79th.