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Your turn.

It's not assumptions, it's analysis, and maybe I'm wrong. What sort of talk about a proposal would be more fitting? It's a proposal. It was put out for comment. Banquets and such aren't too different from conventions, in the sense that the attendees don't select the venue. Unless the event is for kids, I can't imagine many going to this type of venue over Landerhaven. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

Good catch, I didn't notice that point in the article. But I don't see the Landerhaven crowd showing up at a Rockometer to do their Landerhavening. We'd need to build something a little classier for that to happen.

No, we aren't. We're talking about how to take this news we just got. Some see it as the beginning of a bright new future. They will continue to see it that way, even if you don't like it when they say so. Optimism 1 MTS 0

Whoa, now .. baby steps. lol. Whoaa....... It's high time we start redeveloping this town as if we mean to get it done in our lifetimes. Momentum is building and we must jump on it. Now Now Now! We just watched a story unfold where someone wanted to build something cool here, and all anyone in power wanted them to do was slow their roll. Enough of that.

Now we just need a new home for our nascent film industry.

I think you're right on all points. Re TV I meant way back in the day, as soon as TV came out. That was the beginning of the end of a lot of things. TV may have been the primary motor of sprawl all along, and sprawl may have been the primary motor of our economic crash... everyone has to have their own personal set of what were once neighborhood-level amenities. Even if all those new personal amenities were produced at a factory nearby, which they weren't, this may not ever have been a sustainable system.

Went to Greenhouse Tavern over the weekend. I like it a lot. The service was clearly still in training ("Specials? Let me ask, I'll be right back."). I didn't get to see a full menu and the happy hour menu was a little sparse. But the food and atmosphere were great all around.

^ The shift from neighborhood to private amenities started with TV replacing theaters. I would love to see us reverse that trend... but as you've observed, it's pervasive. It's also horribly inefficient at the societal level, for each neighborhood to have 15 pools instead of one. But this drives purchasing, which enriches a number of people, a number which probably never included any US pool or trampouline manufacturers.

By 8th grade they should be calculating credit ratings using the actual formulas our lives are controlled by... except that those formulas are still protected as trade secrets. Modern financial arrangements should be taught early and often, in every school. If we explain this stuff to young minds, maybe the kids will finally do something about "what do you mean they won't say what they penalize you for?"

I like the Perk Park angle, although I still think sight lines aren't the best thing for a park. I would rather just dump the 2.5m into police salaries or into hiring private security for downtown. Still, this is a nice way for all sides to save face in the negotiations.

I wonder what the City would do with the money? While there will be costs to move some employees, etc, we should have a nice chunk of cash left over. I hope that we use it to 1. lure some large employer downtown, 2. help build something catalytic downtown, 3. put some away in a rainy day fund--i'd bet that the city budget will be tough to balance over the next few years. My understanding is that they balanced the budget this year with one-time cash flows-- they called in outstanding loans and let them be paid off early with discounts. If this is the case, they would need the additional inflow from the CC sale to avoid serious cuts going forward. Then they'll also need another large one-time cash dump next year, and so on. Sustainability may be a concern. I wonder what the City would do with the money? While there will be costs to move some employees, etc, we should have a nice chunk of cash left over. I hope that we use it to 1. lure some large employer downtown, 2. help build something catalytic downtown, 3. put some away in a rainy day fund--i'd bet that the city budget will be tough to balance over the next few years. I think it should be spread all over the city. I don't want cleveland to do a Philly or DC (especially Philly) and continue to concentrate so much effort/money on Downtown the outer neighborhoods suffer. Perhaps, and this has been a key point for Jackson. I would argue that our downtown still needs significant work and I might continue to target it with disproportionate effort/money. If MM/CC works out to everyone's expectations, we may soon be able to start spreading out the efforts more.

If Jackson ends up getting a few extra million for the city, good for him. Good for everybody. They'll need it to balance the budget again next year. It didn't look like that was his only goal over the past month or so... but if that's what he ultimately gets done, then he's done very well.

It would be cheesy like coney island. However, is bad design, on a project in a touristy area, better than nothing? I would rather having something there that helps change perceptions and draws visitors and residents downtown than nothing. No, not better than nothing. It's a big dumb pile of dumb. It will make people think we don't get rock and didn't deserve the rock hall. I really want the city to build on its musical heritage, and on the rock hall itself, but this is the wrong way to go about it. And did that article refer to accomodating "crowds" from the Mather museum? Mr. Axelrod may not fully understand the dynamics of his chosen site. There's nothing down there to sustain any sort of crowd, not on a non-Browns day. Maybe once the CC is fully integrated with the lakefront, there could be enough spillover to sustain a complex like this. Or maybe once significant residential is constructed down there. Until then I can't see who would be going to this.

An entire decade? What do they eat while they're looking? It's a problem I've had in the past.

But for how long...? Now there I'm speculating. Burke's presence makes the entire end-of-9th area very hard to develop. Maybe if they could shove the airport eastward on its land mass, this problem could be mitigated. As you point out, something will need to be done or Burke will jeopardize everything, including the Rockometer.

You actually made it sound better than I did. Tower... island... lake... not too shabby.

Well, there's a much more positive spin on everything. I just want to go home happy today, knowing that we're out of the woods with this.

I think you were right the first time. The far side of the stadium is a lot further away from everything than the mall is. I'd like to see Voinovich Park redone as a residential tower with a kickin club at the bottom, but that's just me.

That does sound like a workable resolution. I'm more concerned about the Postively Cleveland angle than the money. I don't think there's any way MMPI would want their marketing done by this group, given that MMPI is supposed to save the battle that PC hasn't been winning on its own.

Hopefully the area won't seem as isolated once the FEB project is included. The distance and the obstacles probably mean a somewhat self-sufficient retail/service scene will be needed down there. That doesn't mean big stuff or tons of stuff... I'm thinking pretty much what was already envisioned for the FEB.

edit: crossed in the mail

Coming up on t-minus 3 hours for some good news about the deal deadline... Cleveland mayor vows that the city will get more than $17.5 million for the city's old convention center http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/05/cleveland_mayor_vows_that_the.html Posted by Joe Guillen May 01, 2009 13:34PM CLEVELAND — Cuyahoga County commissioners won't get the Cleveland Convention Center for $17.5 million as they hoped, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson said this afternoon as negotiations continue on the downtown property. "The price will be higher than the 'ultimatum,'" Jackson said in a statement released minutes ago. "And, just as importantly, my concerns surrounding agreement details that protect the public's interest are also being addressed."...

You're a straight man, do you really care what her hair looks like? FYI yes we do kinda care about that. Probably not as much as girls think we do, but we do.

The socially crippled folks I referred to are the ones usually sought for long haul duties. If you're a people person, or even a normal person, that job just doesn't work for you. It requires a distinctively non-people person, someone who doesn't have much of a home and doesn't care when they get back to it. Maybe these people can become the new frieght train crews! Unfortunately that won't employ all of them...