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If anyone's forgetting, it's him. I was really excited about having a president from this region, but if he doesn't play hardball when other regions are trying to leave us behind, what good is it?

You're right, those wars tend to garner more interest. But our war history is substantial and underutilized: Fallen Timbers, the misadvaentures of Arthur St. Clair, Battle of Lake Erie, wipeout of the Erie tribe, Ohio City vs. Cleveland, mafia madness, labor/management violence, Gnadenhutten massacre, "who mourns for Logan?" and so on. Maybe we need to sex up the presentation a little, and focus on stories of conflict like these.

These boots are made for walkin'

Well, it is only a cash cow if it is generating cash. I understand your point, but if there is no cash, there is no cow. The same could be said for finance in New York, but we're seeing a fierce determination to make sure New York continues to recieve everyone's cash.

Heavy industry works well here because of the lakes, existing infrastructure, and a populace skilled in metalwork. Of course it can be and has been done elsewhere, but while we're on the subject, I think NY/LA/DC all have some sharing to do as well. We can do finance, marketing, soundstage production, and certainly federal paper pushing. But they dare not spread those opportunities around... only ours.

I thought you meant medians. Medians help too.

You mean 5 rowhouses, I believe there are 5.

That's what happens when we get publicity! Welcome to the big time, y'all.

The problem is that the environment here isn't that noisy, but for the beeping. It's awful. And if you're on one of those buses, it's even worse. It sounds like you're at McDonalds and they're ignoring all the orders on their screen, so the computer is getting madder and madder at them. And Jam40jeff is right that it is often safer to cross against the light. The actual traffic situation is a lot more important. It may sound weird but I also think it's safer to cross in the middle of a block instead of at an intersection. Take 10 minutes to observe traffic... not only does the intersection get a lot more of it, it's less predictable there because people are turning.

I too despise reality TV shows. Especially the ones that ruin music. And it's not just the distance or time that makes the drive to UC "harrowing," as I once called it. It's the traffic, the lanes, the cameras, the sheer number of things you have to watch out for and deal with. The truth is people hate driving. Chester and Carnegie remind them why.

How would you do this? Force people to live next door to drug dealers? Would you want to raise your children in that sort of environment? I would not. I say cut down on gang activity, and that will lead less urban sprawl. Millions of impoverished immigrants came here hundreds of years ago. They were poor, couldn't speak English, and had no government support. While some resorted to crime, a majority assimilated into American ideals and became productive members of society. Forcing baby daddys to be real fathers would be my first move. The government destroyed the mob's power with a little thing called the state lottery. They legalized the mob's cash cow, making it worthless to them. I think this is a good analogy for drug policy. And I hear it a lot, but I think white immigrants are a poor analogy for former slaves who were still considered a lesser species at the time the immigrants were coming over. Not even close. Elements of both groups turned to organized crime for largely the same reasons, but the proportions are completely off. White people can learn the language and integrate. This was not possible for blacks, and still isn't in many ways. That continued segretation, long after other forms of it have evaporated, is what I blame sprawl on primarily. And when the legal system has been diamatrically opposed to you and your people for so long, it is very difficult to accept that suddenly it's your friend, whose legitimacy should take precedence over loyalty to one's neighbors. It's a hard sell. It's a sale that needs to be made, but we have a ways to go. If we're going to keep punishing crime in general, which I think we should, we should do more to recognize the extent of the past crimes against humanity these communities are dealing with.

This is what that Russian professor predicted as America's fate... the midwest joins Canada, while other regions go their own ways. I hope it doesn't come to that. I saw one article yesterday on Politico about this issue, which is the first mention I've seen anywhere. What troubles me most is that people from this area can't even agree on saving our one cash cow.

I disagree, I think Ohio history is extremely interesting and I blame the government for not sufficiently promoting it. Ohio's native history may be shrouded in myth somewhat, but it's a great story that nobody knows. And I'm not even talking about the pre-historic civilization here, which many people are wholly unaware of. We as a state don't do a good enough job claiming our own major characters, like Tecumseh. And I would imagine those original settler populations still dominate most of the land area and/or counties in Ohio. Their story is a decent one, as are the stories of subsequent European immigrants, and those from other places. Ohio should have more pride in its history... it isn't the stories but the promotion of them that is uncool.

Totally agree on both points.

Yeah, except this is much more serious. Are we part of this country or not?

Well, it would still be an issue, because the bus and the pedestrian are both told to occupy the same space at the same time. If a bus is turning and waiting for a green light to do so, that green light will come at the same time the walk sign does. So the timing of the lights is dangerous. One party is expected to ignore its signal, and that is bad news for any communications system. The safest way to solve it is for pedestrians to get their own time to cross, when parallel vehicle traffic is not green. But that would slow everything down too much. Maybe we should try the "scramble crossings" idea mentioned in another thread.

Strobe lights cause seizures, I thought. Random notices like stobes or buses beeping can certainly be nuisances, but they can also be counterproductive by creating white noise and confusion. Like someone mentioned before, every time someone uses their car horn gratuitously, it's like crying wolf. People become less attuned to the horn sound as a danger signal. They start to assume the horn means some lazy person has arrived to pick up a friend. Similarly, if beeping means "I'm on Public Square" rather than "I'm getting run over," it serves little purpose. A bus going around a corner is not an event worthy of fanfare.

^ That's what I'm getting at. Where does it end? I'm still troubled by the fact that NYC-heavy industries get bailed out to no end, with questions reserved for later, while the midwest gets treated very differently. There is no question an auto industry collapse disproportionately hurts the midwest. I feel like we're being written off, like our states are considered expendable in a way NYC isn't.

I am completely non-supportive of gangs and their culture... but at the same time I can't blame them for rejecting official authority and inventing their own. They aren't the first to do so, when confronted with membership in the underclass. Eliminate the problems that lead to gangs, including urban sprawl, and the gangs will just about vanish.

Go to the link so you can see a picture of this thing. I must have one. Ohio man charged with drunken driving on bar stool http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-03-31-bar-stool-dui_N.htm NEWARK, Ohio (AP) — Authorities in Ohio say a man has been charged with drunken driving after crashing his motorized bar stool. Police in Newark, 30 miles east of Columbus, say when they responded to a report of a crash with injuries on March 4, they found a man who had wrecked a bar stool powered by a deconstructed lawn mower. Twenty-eight-year Kile Wygle was hospitalized for minor injuries. Police say he was charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated after he told an officer at the hospital that he had consumed 15 beers. Wygle told police his motorized bar stool can go up to 38 mph. Wygle has pleaded not guilty and has requested a jury trial.

I wonder if there will be an uptick in UO traffic because of the quote. It was described as a "transportation forum," which isn't the most enticing thing they could have said.

So... GM gets split into good and bad halves, maybe. Wagoner fired at Obama's behest. Chrysler goes to Fiat, by fiat. Warranties will be honored by the feds. Auto industry as a whole still getting treatment several orders lower than financials got... no guarantees, no reassuring announcement to the world, no limitless money pipeline, and a slew of arbitrary deadlines. Is any of this wise? Is any of this fair?

Yes, and being hit once is better than being hit twice. NCB should have been bailed out if anyone was. We should have been allowed to keep that HQ. I assume downtown staff will eventually be cut down, a lot, but there's no way they explain those plans till things blow over. At least not until after they get their name on everything. No bank needs two HQs so close together. The whole point of the merger was to save money. I have several friends and relatives with NCB so I'm watching this closely. For downtown, NCB is a big item in the "it's worse now" basket. Business as a category goes in the "it's worse now" basket. I still say there's net improvement over 10 years, giving a lot of weight to population growth and Euclid Ave projects. But I worry that I'm way off, and these improvements actually pale in comparison to downtown losing all its downtown credentials like retail and corporate HQs and orgs like JCF.

Oh Lawd. Knowing you, you probably would have pulled out a magic wand and broken into a rant on the state of downtown retail! Only if it was a meeting about downtown retail and someone dismissed all my downtown retail policy suggestions with silly cartoons. Then I'd have to bring out the wand, yes. Now that we're done with that other thread, I hope we can come up with a new way forward on this beeping issue. Imagine an out of towner, at the tourist center on the square, asking what all the beeping is about, and some local says it's so we can tell when buses are turning. I'm not sure what could make us all look dumber, as a people. How much more audible is this beeping, at street corner level, than the engine of the bus? Do these really add enough to justify themselves? How is anyone supposed to realize what this sound indicates? Why wouldn't people tune it out if they spend considerable time downtown? Will these be shut off for festivals or speeches? Was any input sought about giving downtown Cleveland a new soundtrack? Because a plane just hit a house in Buffalo, do all airplanes need a barbershop quartet tied to the fuselage so people know to get out of their house when it's coming?

An accurate measure would require many runs over many different times, and I'd be as interested in the variance as the mean. Apparently we've all had different experiences driving it. I've not had the 6 minute experience myself, though it's concievable. It's just not reliable. For such a key route you want more predictability. Important business services love predictibility in travel times. That distance with that many variables all make it harder. The OCB will have little effect on commuter traffic on these roads anyway. They go downtown and it wouldn't.