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I completely understand this argument, but if you start spreading it out, then all areas begin to be affected. This is why I hate the Section 8 voucher system. The crimes will be committed regardless, why spread them to other areas? As I'm writing this, I know it is quite insensitive. But at the same time, I think we need to look at this argument with a renewed sense of realisim. This comes up a lot in Lakewood. While there's something to it, I think the effect of having all the poverty smashed in together is much worse than spreading it out. If the effects of poverty were more apparent in the outer ring (across America) there might be more of an effort to combat it. Out of sight, out of mind.

I looked into public housing for myself, and yes it has everything to do with financial status. Look over an application some time.

I live in Cleveland (see avatar) I go to the westside, via Rapid all the time. When I drive, I take 490. So what there is a little gridlock, we've been spoiled here in Cleveland too long with light traffic. Now its called a problem. I disagree. That bridge can come down and leaving plenty of routes in to/out of downtown. Again, those on i-90 or I-77 can connect with downtown You use 490 because you're going to/from Shaker, as opposed to downtown where all these other roads go. That final stretch of 77 is not nearly big enough to handle everyone from 90 EB, 71, and 77 in the morning. No way, no how. Cleveland traffic is famously low-key, and we're in no position to lose advantages right now. NYC has bad traffic because it's in high demand. Part of Cleveland has bad traffic right now because of inexcusable planning failures. If it gets any worse, it will sap value from west side properties for years to come.

There are a lot of people who share your opinion in OC. So... WTF? Does the city/county have no interest in cultivating OC as a prime area? Will it change your opinion of the area or cause you to patronize it less? Not me, but in the aggregate I'm fairly certain it will have that effect. I'm considering OC as a semi-permanent home. This news doesn't exactly entice me. You're right though, it isn't a straight up project. But there have been some negative reports out of Tremont regarding a development that sounds similar to this one.

Is that even on any of the infrastructure wish lists? I figured it would be all over the news by now, but I haven't heard a peep (present company excluded).

There are a lot of people who share your opinion in OC. So... WTF? Does the city/county have no interest in cultivating OC as a prime area?

The standard Cleveland traffic metrics you're using do not apply. I realize you're in NYC and you haven't been to the west side of Cleveland lately. Traffic has been unlike anything I've ever experienced here, on every route. Clifton through Edgewater is gridlocked every morning. Sometimes it backs up into Lakewood, and occasionally Detroit Ave is gridlocked INTO LAKEWOOD as well. It's almost always gridlocked for morning rush between 85th and the Gordon Square construction. Lorain Ave is not affected (that I know of), but it isn't really an alternative to anyone living north of I-90.

490 doesn't go anywhere and the alternative roadways are all under construction at the same time. I'm with Frank Jackson on this, we can't lose that bridge right now. I just won't be on it.

Bad. My approach to subsidized housing is that it should be as spread out as possible. This is essentially the Section 8 theory, as opposed to the earlier "let's build projects" theory. Concentrated poverty is bad for the people it concentrates and for those around them. I can't think of any showpiece neighborhood in any comparable city that has so much subsidized housing. Ohio City doesn't need more of it, Westlake does.

I have no desire to ever be on that bridge again. I'm glad they're doing things to keep it safe, but they keep having to do more things.

I am astounded that any new subsidized housing would be added to the existing concentration in Ohio City.

What does "income qualified basis" mean?

That pronunciation is correct. And the township containing the Youngstown airport is spelled Vienna but pronounced Vai-enna. They changed it during WWI, supposedly.

Clarence Boddicker you are under arrest, and I am blown away they would even think of putting a toll road through the middle of Cleveland. 271, however, would make a great toll road.

Absolutely, and I think the MM/CC will be too. Maybe not quite as much of a sure thing though. I'm not bringing this stuff up to argue against the project, I'm bringing it up in favor of a more open process. Paying too much for a good thing can really mitigate your benefit.

The market for luxury suites is certainly a valid question these days. The relative lack of them puts a cap on best-case revenues; it's a non-issue when the economy falls apart. My main point was about the land deal. The public tends to lose on these deals, sometimes in outrageous fashion, and details are never forthcoming. That's why I was hoping for a more open process on this thing. You'd think the controversy over the sales tax would have put them on notice.

That doesn't make sense to me. Over a barrel? :wtf: Over a barrel as in they can be charged whatever the lot's owner desires, with no recourse. By that time the park will be aging if not due for replacement. It already can't generate the revenues some of the newer parks can. And those revenue streams are? More luxury suites, primarily. At the time it was built it had an impressive number of them. But since then it's been an arms race to put more suites into each new park. They're the high-profit SUV's of the sports business.

That doesn't make sense to me. Over a barrel? :wtf: Over a barrel as in they can be charged whatever the lot's owner desires, with no recourse. By that time the park will be aging if not due for replacement. It already can't generate the revenues some of the newer parks can.

I was told that the Jacobs Field deal in particular was awful. The awful part won't come to fruition for several more years, when the lease on the land underneath it runs out and the city (county?) will be over a barrel.

Don't give them any ideas.

I like them too, and I agree that they should be more prominently displayed. Some light and color would help downtown a lot. The screens Columbus put up on capitol square give it a big-time feel it didn't have before. I've heard concerns about putting anything tacky behind the old stone church, but the current blank wall is no good. I liked that wall much better when there was a Browns QB painted on it.

It does to me.

Wow, if it were a toll road I would be completely against this too. That article also mentioned I-73 and I-74-- we'd better not build those before the 3C rail system. I used to drive Columbus-Toledo a lot and a direct interstate certainly wouldn't suck, but the 23-15-75 method works well enough. Extending I-74 sounds pretty pointless. I'm not too familiar with that area of the state, but I know Portsmouth is no Toledo and it doesn't need 2 new interstates right now.

Using their main export to alienate Europe isn't a great move. Nobody likes a price gouger.

At the same time, people living downtown should not be forced to drive to Beachwood if all they need is socks, or a non-gangsta shirt for their kid. Being cut off from major retail detracts from downtown's promise of car-free living. The unique retail will draw people in, but there won't be a solid sustainable population downtown without a full range of retail. That includes recognizable chains.