TBideon

On that I disagree. No more "If you built it, they will come" illusions: No more Erieview, Tower City, Galleria, Flats Rapid, Euclid Corridor, Medical Mart, standalone casino, etc, failures. There has to be a master plan and committed tenants before getting rid of Burke. IMO.

Burke would need a large anchor tenant if the city pulled off the impossible, and we sure aren't getting a Nordstroms or outlet mall there. Other businesses need that anchor to commit as well. A stadium might be the only realistic possibility.

Beautiful building. And f-k that guy. He's an evil man.

I disagree. Other countries have cars of varying quality, yet not a fraction of US crime. At the end of the day, and we always dance around the topic, the issue is fundamentally demographics and has been for 60-something years.

Which airport? Seems like this team is only allowed to play near one.

Granted we're talking about fantasy, but let's say a lifestyle center actually develops in Brookpark. Do you honestly think enough people will go out of there year round to visit? Crocker Park is fairly established and caters to mid-higher end clientele who probably don't want to drive to the airport unless necessary. And I can't imagine east siders will make their way to Brookpark for yet another mall. That drive sucks, and I doubt the red line will see that many patrons. I just don't see who'd be shopping there year round to warrant hundreds of millions in commercial investment. Sure there would be some people, at least early on, who're curious, but I don't see it sustained. Eh, it's all conjecture. Jimmy isn't doing s**t but delaying the inevitable.

Even if the fantasy plays out and the AI housing is built, how many units are we talking about? 500? 1000? Crocker Park has 650 units, so I'm imagining this would be comparable. And who on earth would live there? Urbanists want to stay in Cleveland/adjacent suburbs, suburbanites with means have a plethora of better options (be it a dense Chagrin Falls or sprawled out Avon Lake). So who is living in a "luxury" apartment right next to Hopkins. Probably corporate housing and second homes for the weekend. It's a huge waste of resources, sure, but I wouldn't worry about population migrations.

Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. That's all I'm seeing here.

Not to get too off topic, but if you walk around all over it and head as far south as the path(s) go, the park is very underwhelming. 20ish years and it's just so empty and mostly inaccessible (I jog there quite a bit at different hours and barely see anyone). I just can't imagine calling the project a success by any metric. Certainly not a revenue generator or a real attraction save for the few concerts. Maybe it's not a good comparison to Burke.

To be fair, Northerly Island is a disappointment, as the erosion issue has not been resolved. Access is quite limited, though the little beach has a charm and the occasional concert brings in folks. Maybe, in hindsight, it wasn't worth it. It's pretty empty for the most part.

Oh, I think we all know the answer that that one.

You're both right: Developments that hide parking lots but don't provide proper lighting and VISIBLE security are pretty negligent. The US isn't Europe or Asia, and our crime issues/perceptions/enablements are much more an everyday reality. Look at that Escher nightmare behind Macy's in University Heights. There's no way in hell my mom's walking there. Might as well call it Rapeville. Shaker Square's parking lots have a bad vibe and incidents at times, especially behind the theater/Dave's. There've been some issues with Dave's parking lot behind Cedar/Fairmount in the past. Christ, even Beachwood Place's dark garage feels awfully isolating. I swear the sun could supernova and it would still be pitch black for the most part.

Even if the Browns move to San Antonio or London, Cleveland/County/State wouldn't raise $461 million or $1.2 billion for a lakefront plan; it's not like that stadium's hypothetical public fundings would be transferable. And even if that money was reallocated, that amount would be pennies ultimately. So we're still left with a dead lakefront. It's going to take unique leadership courting billionaires, large businesses, and institutional investors to develop that area ultimately. Otherwise, we'll just be having the same conversations for decades.

I could see Townhall drawing in a MAGA suburbanite crowd in ways that other W25th bars ordinarily wouldn't. For instance someone walking with a MAGA or Trump hat would probably be left alone or even embraced. Can't say the same for Great Lakes Brewing, Market Garden, etc...

Another quality article from neo-trans. I don't agree with much of the argument - civic pride was unbelievable in the years the Browns left, remember "the Comeback City" - but it was a very good and enjoyable read.

Cheering the demise of a restaurant is foolish. If all of Bobby's businesses close, that doesn't exactly help his employees or the neighborhood vacancies. Plus the Flats project is now, presumably, DOA, which doesn't help anyone.

Boston is lame and boring? Well... that's certainly an interesting take.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cleveland.com/metro/2024/08/the-fine-print-bibbs-cleveland-browns-stadium-offer-isnt-anywhere-close-to-the-5050-split-the-haslams-want-while-putting-general-fund-at-risk.html%3foutputType=amp The fine print: Bibb’s Cleveland Browns stadium offer isn’t anywhere close to the 50/50 split the Haslams want, while putting general fund at risk TL/DR: Might be time to say goodbye again. These financials are unacceptable on every possible level, and appeasing the drunk Muni idiots and billionaire grifters isn't worth the expense.

Jimmy and Dee could commit to a profit-sharing agreement for all public funders, and that would end debate. Construction would begin in months. But they won't, and now we're in a mess that will possibly lead to the Browns moving across states. That's on Jimmy and Dee fully, and no one should give those grifters any benefit of the doubt.

Or, and hear me out, where there already is a stadium and has been, in some incarnation, since 1931.

Not exactly Disneyland, is it. The taxpayers are sure getting their money's worth.

The school owns the land and leases it to the RTA.

And with team ambassadors like Hall and Watson, who wouldn't want to give the team a 10-figure check.

Which part? I get there's a glib tone, but I think I broke things down fairly rationally.

The grifters are both 70. A stadium of this scale and complication would take, what, 3-4 years? And there is probably at least another year of infrastructure improvements and related time-consuming requirements - RFPs, permits, licenses, biddings, freeway expansions(?), utilities, RTA-related(?) - before a shovel touches the ground. And before we even get to that process, it'll probably be another year of posturing, even potential litigation, before we know where the stadium actually ends up, be it downtown, Brookpark, or a different state. JImmy may want Brookpark, but without financing locked in, he might as well want to fly the Enterprise. Same outcome. And then there's the 6-month Modell grace period for the Browns to seek new ownership. Meanwhile time keeps going by, and the Haslems age. Hell, urbanohio ages. Christ, we'll still be arguing about Burke. Even if a stadium is miraculously built by 2028-2030, the rest of Jimmyworld woun't be a concurrent build and would be part of some Phase 2-through whatever. So now two 75-year-olds are soliciting hotel chains, restaurants, bars, retail, theaters, Top Golfs, and various other attractions? Is this really how Jimmy and Dee are going to spend their twilight years, as mixed-use developers in a region they have no interest? They've been lying for 12 years about the Lakefront development plan; only now they're telling the truth? A stadium MIGHT happen (god knows DeWine is the usual MAGA spineless billionaire-worshiper, and I don't have much faith in Cuyahoga hustler politicians). And that's all Jimmy/Dee really wants. Which sucks, but i don't see hotels and restaurants in Cleveland seeing any competion beyond perhaps a single bar or restaurant built along with stadium. In five or six years.