TBideon

A Pandora is opening? Tell me they're not poaching it from Beachwood Place.

Oh I'm sure they'll come during Phase Never, with Phase 1 being the new stadium and some infrastructure repair. And the idiots will eat it alllllll up.

Final 4s, Super Bowl, mega concerts -- boy, those are some major assumptions.

The lease expires in 2028, so we've got the turd for a little longer -- unless they f off to Sacramento until the new stadium is built. Demoltion/clean-up takes potentially 6 months, which may vary if there are wrecking balls or explosives. Demolition costs are unknown at this point ($35 million seems like a very conseravtive estimate based on five minutes of research). Point being, it's going to be years before the stadium is flattened. And even when/if that occurs, realistically, what next? Undoubtedly we'll see big presentations that are partial regurgitations of those from decades prior, but where is the financing and tenant demand? I'm very bearish on anything happening there of note for decades.

Yes, let's give the criminal billionaire the benefit of the doubt.

It's not like downtown Cleveland is bustling during the majority of game days either. Muni fans get trashed, pay tribute to horrible people like Brown and Watson, watch the game, then go home to get further trashed. The whole idea of the stadium being some impetus for bigtime economic activity just hasn't worked out besides some hotels and restaurants/bars having higher attendances.

Great math but we all know the city/county get screwed on direct financials. It's all that other, vague, hyperexaggerated, abstract ROI that matter. I guess. And we gotta appease the drunk idiots. A win for Bibb regardless of what happens next.

Thumbs grudgingly up for this proposal. LOVE the tight timeftame too.

I don't think investors seem particularly interested in developing any of these areas, whether it's a clean slate like Burke or existing lands in North Collinwood and Euclid. The latter at least have the potential for organic growth and not at whatever ungodly cost Burke would require. These hedge funds or international investors or Blackrocks just don't seem to have that kind of interest in the region. And locals like Gilbert, Stark, Jimmy/Dee, the Ratners, etc, seem to not give a s-hit about Cleveland these days, so we can't rely on them. Which is why I feel the whole topic is a bit moot. Entertaining but more fantasy than anything.

Sounds like a Bratenahl 2.0. Nothing wrong with a wealthy enclave, but really, how would the city benefit and recoup the billions of investment and hours required for planning and implementation.

Weren't there rumors some years ago here that Green might be shutting down? It does feel quite redundant to Blue.

"Republican Ohio State Representative Rodney Creech, who owns a turfgrass business, discussed the bill on Tuesday at a press briefing." The loons aren't even pretending anymore. Not even bothering with a shell corporation

I think with the city's limited resources, plans should be made that are realistic, whether now, 20 years, 40, etc. North Collinwood and Euclid aren't exactly thriving despite their lakefront locations. You'd think they'd be the most desired lands in the region, but clearly they have varying struggles, and that's with existing infrastructure and neighborhood amenities. If they can't take advantage of the lake, I'm not understanding why we presume a Burke wonderland would. I just don't see the demand and certainly not the financing.

Say we did though. What on earth would Cleveland even do with those 450 acres? We can't even fill out the Flats to any significant degree, so I question how badly people really want to live, work, and recreate by water in this region. There would have to be a billionaires' consortium in place with concrete plans -- hell, with actual concrete -- with longterm, mutli-generational funding and tenant committments, and we all know that isn't happening. Hell, the Saudis have unlimited money and even they're vastly scaling back the Line project. Really, realistically, unfortunately, lakefront development just isn't happening at Burke. This whole discussion is fun, but we might as well be arguing if the earth is flat.

I'd argue the city would benefit a great deal more from a proper Burke park/complex than Gordon. I-90 and CSX just butchered the poor park, and it's so far away from downtown and inaccessible without a car that it would only benefit the locals and boaters a little, not region. That $8 million bandaid is a pittance. Mind you, I don't think Burke is going anywhere in our lifetimes, and even if it miraculously did, it isn't like funding and tenants would line up to any degree unless we start getting enormous international capital from Saudis, Russians, Chinese, etc. Billions. Maybe tens of billions.

I was more a Sevarance, Randall and especilaly Richmond Mall kid, but the west side trips were always interesting. It was a pretty neat place in the 90s, best I can remember.

Or maybe the rail line needs to be shut down after all. So much expense for such a short distance for so few people. It's like the Detroit People Mover. An incomplete project with barely any use - at some point you need to cut your losses.

And god bless Daley for it, though the park is highly underutilized and there are significant erosion issues. That aside, it's worth a day visit and picnic, even has a restaurant by a little beach. That penninsula is a big chunk of land along the lake that people can enjoy. I don't know if it qualifies as CBD, but there is a vacant 78 acres parcel connecting Chicago's South Loop to Chinatown. Might as well be another Warehouse District Project with that project's stagnation despite all the bulls**t presentations in the world. Huzzah, a road no one can use has been built!

Setting it up for failure quite openly. Seems like RTA really just wants to end this experiment once and for all. 30 years and tens of millions wasted for nothing.

"Things like the Rock Hall, Voinovich Park, and the Science Center came out of those earlier lakefront plans." Fair point.

Cities are tombs, I get that. But these endlessly delayed projects and decades of stagnations make it very hard to be optimistic about progress. Especially as it pertains to Lake Erie.

And just think, the Empire State building was built in 9 months. The Erie Canal took 8 years. The Hoover Dam 5 years. 4.5 years for the Golden Gate bridge. Meanwhile we're in decade 4 or 5 (6? 7?) with the lakefront plans, and there has been NOTHING.

How about they get rid of that non-guaranteed money bulls**t first, then worry about kickoff rules. Half of these guys get Parkinson's, but their teams can withhold millions to save on budget.

What's next, a flat earth convention? NFT lecture? 3d televisions forum? https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/27/trump-bitcoin-conference-harris.html Trump proposes strategic national crypto stockpile: ‘Never sell your bitcoin’

Damn, I forgot to post the article about it closing and Disney World relocating there. My bad.