TBideon

Agreed it's improbable, but Detroit did get one, and that was thought to be very unlikely for similar, among some unsaid, reasons.

Early February in the Midwest/Northeast is no joke. 2 degrees in Minnesota 2018, 26 degrees Minneapolis in 1992, 30 degrees in Detroit 2006, 44 degrees in Indianapolis 2012. Hell, it was 34 degrees during the Atlanta icestorm in 2000. Doesn't make for a fun week of events even with a dome.

Perhaps, but do most of them want a team in Cleveland? Plenty of cities - Salt Lake City, San Antonio, San Diego, Portland, Toronto, London - would show interest and could provide significant incentives. Even with a new owner considering remaining in Cleveland, the location and incentive package problems would be major complications.

Unfortunately the Packers deal can't be replicated; ownership groups are now limited to 24 (25?) people. Also, Green Bay has a unique arrangement where the profits must be reinvested into the team rather than go to the stateholders/owners. Moot point here, but if you can't profit what you own, there'd be some resistance if that were an option. The Art Modell law gives Cleveland six months to find a buyer before Jimmy and Dee can look in different cities, regions, states for relocation. Unless the Lerners or Ratners (maybe the Wexners?) are willing to write a big check, I'd be bearish on that happening.

Bibb has been pretty quiet about the whole thing. My hunch, probably all our hunches, is this isn't a top priority as there really are far more pressing matters, within his control, of which he and his administration should be focusing. We'll probably see something similar to the Bears in which, like the Browns, the owners bought land in a nearby suburb as leverage, and, like the Browns, decided to stay by the lakefront in the end. A new stadium for the Bears, a big refurbishment for the Browns, and we'll kick the can another 30 or 40 years. Nothing changes, more lakefront powerpoints get presented, and we can go back to arguing if Burke should be closed for another decade.

It doesn't change my opinion that subsidizing sports owners needs to be accompanied with a profit-sharing agreement, but it's an interesting interview. This deal is certainly not as nauseating as the bulls**t in Oklahoma and Buffalo, and the treachery is welllllll underway in Kansas. That said, he's full of s**t with the usual "oh, the ancillary benefits are huuuuuuge" cliches despite so much research saying otherwise. It's all so obvious. No profit-sharing agreement, no deal. Let them play in Dubai.

This "Just Walk Out" bulls**t is way out of left field. Amazon completely misrepresented themselves with those grocery stores and their technologies.

How on earth do you know this

I say Bibb gives the grifters an ultimatum. They want x dollars, they have to decide by y date. They want to decide by y + z months, then they get x - alpha dollars. Enough is enough.

2 and 0 folks. 160 to go.

Been a while since we've had an offense on game one.

At least they spelled it correctly.

Make sure to start with, "Seriously guys, what the f is with that stupid elf?" Or "Was the 32 patch meant to honor Jim Brown or the 32 women he abused and tried to murder throughout his violent past."

They also believed Johnny Football would be the next Tom Brady or that committing fraud for diesel fuel discounts was fair game. Or that they would develop a world-class lakefront attraction with all the bells and whistles. Or that a certain sexual predator quarterback wouldn't irreparably destroy a team's reputation. They're grifters, and until agreements are signed, tenants have committed to deals, and cranes on the ground, I don't believe much of what they have to say.

Who's not-for-profit? That tax-exempt bulls**t ended in 2015. Or maybe I misread your reference. Also, folks, people, civilians of rational thought, no one is building hotels in Brookpark to support 9 or 10 games a year. Jimmy and Dee are not building a ballpark village, and even if they miraculously did, in no way would it warrant more hotels. It's not like Brookpark is going to be some kind of international, national or even local destination outside of 9 or 10 dreary Midwest winter days. A Marriott and Hyatt would be mighty lonely near the Travelodge and Amber's Cabaret.

There can only be one Phoenix on a Cleveland 9th street, it is decided.

That assumes people wouldn't spend their money elsewhere downtown; maybe there could be a Browns watch party in the stadium or other inventive ways of attracting people downtown those 9 Sundays and 1 Monday/Thursday a year. Also, what businesses would really suffer? Ancillary gameday benefits are probably limited to downtown hotels, eateries, parking lot owners (the real heroes), liquor stores and strip clubs. It's not like the family is shopping at Higbee's before the game. All that aside, yes, the city/county receive some tax revenue, of course they do, but I don't think any of us really know if that amount surpasses the hundreds of millions, if not billions, in public costs for the stadium, repairs, utilities, etc. And that aside, Cleveland, no longer saddled with the Browns stadium, would have a lot of cash for other investments that could have a big impact. Been a crazy busy day, but I really want to dig into the numbers when I get a chance.

I doubt it but it would be something. What's Hector Marinaro doing these days anyway.

Then the airport director can direct people to the red line. Or, like cities with 10x the amount of traffic near airports, somehow life still goes on and people adapt. I think the guy just wants his name in the paper. At least he didn't use the word "transformative".

If that whole area became just a park, that would be a hell of a fun day for Clevelanders 6-8 months a year. Edgewater Park 2.0. A low cost Boston Commons or Millenium Park, which would draw in people from the region, would warrant investment more than an unused albatross gifted to a criminal billionaire and her husband.

Also, and when I have a minute, I'll have to spend some time looking it up, is the Browns stadium even an actual, provable economic engine in which the public sees a net positive ROI?

Hey, they haven't lost yet this season!

Well, we won't have to worry about Burke closing in our lifetimes. As for the pessimism of the Browns leaving, downtown will survive if they play elsewhere for 9 or 10 Sundays a year. The city seemed to do okay in the 90s when they were gone; actually, it was an amazing three years as I remember.

That all makes sense. I just wish they'd announce something concrete so we can move on.

It's like the Bears and more so the White Sox. Different circumstances from the Browns, sure, but those owners have not done a thing for developing new housing, hotels, restaurants, bars, parks, retail, improved public access... really anything to make those desolate stadiums economic engines. And all the while the city/county is pumping hundreds of millions for years into the billionaires laps with only vague ROIs. Hurray for the parking lot owners and liquor stores - they sure make a killing when the drunk idiots are tailgating. What an investment! Granted the Bears have unique hurdles, but the White Sox could be another Wrigley if the bastard Reinsdorf didn't have such a hard-on for parking lots and unused land. If that team moves closer to the river, he still won't be developing s**t. There's a reason the United Center, despite being adjacent to the hottest neigbhorhood in the midwest, is still surrounded by parking lots. It's like you're on the moon when walking around there, just the way he likes it. They aren't developers; they're asshole billionaires who want freebees and for sports fans to kiss the ring. Back to the point TBideon, back to point... With a straight face, who on earth really thanks Jimmy and Dee will develop anything outside the stadium, and in Brookpark of all places. The only thing they know how to develop are familiar powerpoint presentations and division among Browns fans who don't want to root for a sexual predator quarterback. Maybe the Browns will move, but that's going to be one lonely, isolated stadium if they pick Brookpark. But at the end of the day, Jimmy and Dee, just make a f'ing decision. The Empire State building was built in 9 months; how the hell has this discussion gone for so much longer.