seanmcl

The Pennsylvania Passenger/Freight Rail Plan for 2035. http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdBRF.nsf/RailPlan2035 Hopefully something will actually happen with this though they could have been a bit more imaginative.

There was a time when the operative word in "investigative reporting" was "investigative". That was before the news media decided that they were in the entertainment business instead of the business of informing the citizenry. For example, the teaser starts with the following: 1997: $6 million spent. 2002: $6 million spent. 2010: $25 million spent. Insofar as I am aware, the $25 million has not been spent. And assuming that the numbers for 1997 and 2002 represent expenditures for passenger rail travel, then between 1997 and 2010, $12 million was spent or, less than $1 million/year. Compared to what? How about the amount of money spent to change all the signs, stickers, certificates, stationary, etc., in that same period everytime there was a change in who were the elected officials? How about the amount spent on Ohio's roads, highway patrol, airports, etc.? In addition, they are mischaracterizing the $25 million as being spent by Ohioans. In reality, it is $25 million spent ON OHIO! Finally, some points made by a respondant to the original article (and, I think, already articulated in this forum) include: 1. Only 85 cents of every dollar in taxes that Ohioans pay to the Federal government are returned to Ohio. Turning down the 3C funding is turning down Ohioans share of what they paid into. 2. The $25 million is actually a bonus paid to grant recipients which allows them to fast track a funding request by using a multi-tiered approach to facilities planning. Under the multi-tiered approach, the states are able to apply using preliminary data while deferring the final studies until after the award has been received. Once awarded, the Federal government picks up the tab for Tier II. In other words, under a non-tiered system, Ohio would have had to complete the studies/planning using $25 million more out of its own pocket. Under the multi-tiered system. Ohio gets the completed studies/planning for $25 million less! Show me the downside, here? I am at a loss to find it.

Once, when taking the Silver Meteor we hit a car which had attempted to cross against the signal to beat the train. There were fatalities and the investigation took almost 8 hours before the train was allowed to leave. Of course it wan't Amtrak's fault but that didn't appease the passengers, much.

The State is likely guided by a bidding process. It is not the responsibility of the State to tell road builders to retool for other development; it is the responsibility of the business to adapt to market forces. At least that is what a true Republican would say.

They were also the party of emancipation, until they were against the civil rights movement.

KJP: Your excellent piece explains why there are some prominent Republicans who are against 3C, but it doesn't explain why Republicans on the Control Board voted lock-step with each other, or why this is happening on a regular basis at a national and local level all over the Country. It can explain why legislators like Harris are opposed. But it doesn't explain how an irate citizen can stand up in a town hall and seriously admonish a politician to "keep the government's hands off of my Medicare!" The interests to which you refer simply don't have the pockets deep enough to fit the hand of every legislator and they don't have to. The GOP talking points document which was discovered, accidentally, when left in a hotel, clearly shows that the Republican strategy is to paint the Democrats as moving the US closer to "socialism". You can argue that roads are even more socialist than trains but the fact is that many people will never, as far as they are concerned, take a train whereas most will take a bus or car, and "socialism" is, to them, taking their money and giving it to someone else and when you do that to a person who can't even find work, they get angry. Look at guys like Boehner who lobbied against the economic stimulus package (he actually threw it on the floor during the House debate) but subsequently took credit for the resulting jobs after the money was redirected to shovel-ready projects. So here was a guy ready to vote against a jobs bill who then takes credit for the jobs created after it passed. It isn't conspiracy theory to say that the Republican strategy is to do everything that they can to obstruct and delay progress on legislation perceived to be widely supported by Democrats. It is the only way that you can explain why practically no one will cross the aisle to vote for or against a bill on the merits of the bill rather than the sponsorship. Ironically, the Democrats are pretty much voting lock-step for much the same reason, namely, if they are perceived to have done nothing and the economy doesn't turn around, their chances in November are poorer than if they tried something, anything.

One of the ironies of the Republican Party and a clue to why it is doing what it is doing, is to look at health care and passenger rail. The health care plan which was recently signed into law is similar, in many respects, to health care plans devised under the Nixon administration as well as to the MA health plan signed by Mitt Romney, a Republican. The 3C is part of the Ohio Hub plan, also started by a Republican administration. What Republican strategists have determined is that with incumbants always in danger during a bad economy, blocking any significant legislative initiative on the part of Democrats will give them the ability to channel Ronald Reagan and say "Are you better off than you were four (or two) years ago?" The more that the Democrats are able to do to point to a reason to stick with them for another few years the better off the Democrats will be. Between '06 and '10, the approval margin of Democrats over Republicans was near 20%. Unrealistic expectations on the part of the electorate regarding what Obama would be able to do in his first year, coupled with his inability to control the party has cause public sentiment toward the Democrats to drop. The last thing that Republican's want before November is good news which, ironically, the electorate seems unable to comprehend (if they did, they'd be suspicious of anything the Republicans attempted to do before November). That is why, no matter what kind of economic sense is brought to the 3C discussion, you aren't gonna get many Republican's who openly support it. For them, destroying 3C and projects like it is about defeating Democrats, not helping the citizens of Ohio.

And the only actual data that we have, which is based upon experience, not opinion, is that this is unlikely. Sure, you can make the claim that Ohio is unlike any other region of the country, but even if that were true, how that would affect ridership would still be a matter of opinion, not fact. And, not to beat a dead horse, the purpose of the 3C Quick Start is to reintroduce conventional speed intercity passenger rail service to Ohio as a means of building support for the much greater investment in true HSR. It is hard to have a meaningful conversation about a project such as true 3C HSR, in the abstract.

I was thinking about the kind of political mindset that would cause the Republicans in the legislature to want to block even the no-strings-attached $25 million study when it would help to answer the very questions that they are asking and I started listening to a Christine Lavin album that my wife bought me for Valentine's Day when I got to a song called Mencken's Pen which includes the following quotes from HL Mencken (which could apply to any politician, not just the President): "As democracy is perfected, the office [of the president] represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." "If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." "Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance."

As I noted, before, even if it were 39 mph, the suggestion that people wouldn't ride it is not supported by the experience of other US intercity passenger rail lines. With stops, the average speed of the North Jersey Coast Line is about 32 mph yet there are 40 trains a day in each direction. Nearly all of the people riding the trains own automobiles. Red Bank to New York Penn Station is just under 90 minutes. Under the best of circumstances, to drive that would be a little over an hour you still have to park. I mention this only because if an advocate says 45 and an opponent responds that this is unreasonably optimistic and it is more likely going to be the lower number that doesn't change the fact that people will ride the trains at lower speeds in numbers sufficient to create demand for additional service.

Define "efficient". Without a definition, the statement is meaningless. Why would you assume that someone else "knows" what is, at this point, a matter of conjecture. The total cost of car ownership is fluid and depends upon the usage. I have an F-150 that is 10 years old and has less than 25,000 miles on it. I drive it only when I need to pick up building materials from Home Depot, 3 miles away. When I, once, had to drive it to Vermont it cost me a small fortune. Perhaps. But there are other costs that they won't have. Your arguments fail to consider this point. When I lived in Rumson, I had a car. Taking the train to New York was preferable for many reasons, including the relative cost to drive. I need to have life insurance. That doesn't mean that I want to use it.

Your comments make the suggestion that they were not relaxed and prepared, and anyone who disagrees with you, misses the point. Au contraire, mon ami. I merely reported what they had told me. I gave you a button and you sewed a vest on it. I was meaning to show how time could be spent on a train doing something else besides twiddling your fingers and wishing that you were high, er, I mean flying the friendly skies. I could, just as easily, have recounted my experiences with the New Jersey Transit where 20+ trains/day made travel from Red Bank to New York a pleasure. Sure, I could have taken the Garden State. And under the best of all possible circumstances, I might have reduced the parking to parking times from 90 minutes to 50 minutes. But this rarely happened. And while I sat in one of those packed NJT trains whizzing by the stalled traffic on the Garden State Parkway, I realized that there was room for both technologies and that those people sitting in that traffic got something as meaningful to them as the time that I got to spend with my wife because I could do other things on the train like catch up on my work or read the New York Times. A one month unlimited pass is $249; a little more than $12 day. Try to drive to NYC and park for anywhere near that price. The distance to midtown Manhattan is 45 miles. That makes the average train speed about 30 mph and the trains are packed! So, for at least some people, speed is not the only consideration. Most everyone on these trains wore suits, at least when I traveled and most were not retired. There are calls to restore the Lackawanna Line from Scranton to NYC (120 miles). Why? Because there are people who commute to NYC from Scranton and currently the line only goes as far as Hackettstown (7 trains/day in each direction), which is about 60 miles away. In South New Jersey, the commuter rail runs as far South as Bay Head (75 miles). Fine if you want to drive. I wish you the best on the Garden State during rush hour as I sip my martini in the train whizzing by.

I said no such thing. I said that when I compared what I was able to get done in, essentially, the same amount of time as my colleagues, who chose a different mode of transportation, I was able to do more based upon their assertions. I did not generalize that to you or anyone else, though you took it that way. I was responding to a request for experiences. Now you are not claiming that I didn't have that experience, are you? Show me where I said "better prepared". I said that I was relaxed and prepared and I noted that my colleagues had reported that they had not gotten work done on the day of travel whereas I had put in a full day. That was what they reported to me, not my opinion. None of this had anything to do with you so why are you wound up about it?

No kidding, Dan. Problem is, Japan started with conventional rail, just like most everyone else. The evolution from concept to implementation took almost 30 years and construction is still ongoing. So your point, related to 3C is what? If we can't start at 110+ mph speeds we shouldn't even try? Even Japan didn't do that (and they thought of the bullet train in the 1930s). As has been mentioned numerous times in this, and other, threads, the time it takes to make the trip is not the primary consideration of most people when choosing the mode of transportation. I choose to drive to the shore because with a three year old and a dog, there aren't many other options. Flying would be faster, but that isn't the issue. Most preferable would be a train since I've done enough sitting at the gate with air travel to have had another life. Ah, yes, you don't have the option. Funny, that, and a good point. Neither do many of us who would prefer something less expensive than, flying from Cleveland to Columbus, something that doesn't require us to divert our attention from more productive or lucrative efforts, as driving does, and allows a comfortable space to work unlike bus travel. And it appears that there is a contented segment of our population that intends to deny us these options while requiring our tax dollars to pay for theirs. Doesn't really seem fair, does it?

Sure I did. The total amount of daylight time ON THE TRAIN is nine hours. 5 from Pittsburgh to DC and 4 from DC assuming that you retire at midnight. According to you, you'd be "going nuts", but 13.5 hours in plane from Cleveland to Tokyo is a walk in the park for you? How do you "stop and get out" when you want? I'm not saying that it would be for everyone but you haven't done it and I have. Moreover, that really isn't the point. The point is that since all taxpayers are subsidizing all forms of transportation, shouldn't we have some choices. By some estimates, 60% of the US population will never get on an airplane (by some estimates, this is even higher). Nobody is going to dig up roadways if passenger rail succeeds on a national level (it has already succeeded on a regional level and we're still widening highways). The fact that YOU wouldn't do it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done. No kidding. Why, praytell, if what you really like is being behind the wheel? As you said, you "love to drive...especially alone". Could it be that you are a poster child for the fundamental attribution error.

The fundamental attribution error is not so much a fact as it is a part of human nature. I do what I do because I have a choice while you do something different because of who you are. The problem is that there are no qualifications to be a politician except citizenship.

Actually, I re-read this and then realized that you didn't really read what I posted. For each 24-day of travel from Pittsburgh to Charleston, I put in a full-day's work (billable hours), while I was travelling. For each 5-hour flight from Pittsburgh to Charleston, my colleagues lost a day of work between the time it took to get to/from the airport, the relatively short segments of each flight (there are no direct flights), the relatively short layover, etc. That was my point.

That is an important point and one which needs to be emphasized when referring to the 3C "Quick Start". The "Quick Start" is not the intended finished product (true HSR). It is, in essence, an attempt to get something practical, up and running quickly, so that Ohioans who have been without passenger rail service through the 3Cs can get a better feel for what is possible. Those journalists and legislators who complain that what is being proposed for $400 million is some kind of "bait and switch" are misinformed or dishonest. That, in fact, appears to be the underlying assumption of many of the criticisms of 3C, namely, that the experience of other states is irrelevant to Ohio. This may, in fact, be true, but we'll never know until we try.

I sincerely doubt that. However, my point is that it appears that you have not made such a trip as I described on a train. Fine. that is your preference. But you are hardly in a position to say what you would do since you haven't done it. In fact, your language suggests a startling inconsistency. Ever been to Asia or Australia (I have). How many hours did you spend on a plane (more than I spent on the train, for sure). Now, on that flight, could you move from car to car? Could you bring your own wine and cheese? Could you spread out as much as you wanted? Did you go nuts? Or have you never traveled that far? Sure. But KJP asked for experiences which could help to garner support for 3C. I could have pointed to the period where I worked in the UK, lived in Reading and took the train to London and never needed a car, except when driving to Portmeirion for the weekend. Or when l lived in Rumson and commuted to NYC everyday, rather than spend my time crawling along the Garden State Parkway. I both cases I had a choice and had experienced both modes of travel. I would knock one until I tried it.

DanB: Funny you should use a quote from Abraham Lincoln. You might be interested in the fact that Lincoln championed the development of the Country's first transcontinental railroad. You might also be interested in the fact that under Lincoln's plan, the governments investment was $60 million, in comparison to private investment which was $4 million. (Look up: The Pacific Railway Act July 1, 1862). The Transcontinental railroad has been compared to the Internet in terms of its effect on national commerce and the national culture.

While I spent more than 5 hours on the train, I did NOT spend that many hours in direct contact with the personnel. In fact, one of the advantages is that I could have my own room and socialize, or not, when I wanted. As for the rest, my point was that in a 24 hour period, I was able to accomplish a full day of work. I cannot say the same for my colleagues. Really? I don't know many consultants who can bill their full rate for travel time, especially if they decide to travel by car. I, on the other hand, billed an 8 hour day for the full 8 hours, which I worked and slept when i would have slept, anyway. And, in the process, I got to enjoy changing scenery, good seafood and a relaxing trip. And my point was not that I drank a whole bottle of wine on the trip; I didn't. My point was that I can carry that, and pretty much whatever I want, onto the train (wine, cheese, pate, etc.), and enjoy it. Try that on a flight. I feel sorry for you, DanB. You don't seem to enjoy life much except when you are disparaging others for their experiences. If you want to post positive comments about a 12-hour drive to Charleston, SC. (or anywhere for that matter), be my guest. I promise that I won't be as critical of you. And having trained, flew and driven the same trip, I'm in a position to compare. How about you?

Well, this isn't 3C, specifically, but I think that it is useful in terms of what might be when 3C is part of a larger network. Perhaps it belongs in the Amtrak board, but I think that the closing argument is pertinent to 3C. From 2006-2008 I was an expert witness in a trade secrets case which was being heard in Charleston, SC. There were a number of pre-trial motions and motion hearings and the judge had little patience for either party believing that the parties should have settled long before. Being in Pittsburgh meant that I had to travel to Charleston, frequently, to be there for two to four days at a time. Much of my work involved reviewing the testimony of other witnesses and preparing questions for counsel to pose during cross examination. From Pittsburgh, the Capitol Limited departs for Washington around 6 AM and arrives in Washington just after noon (when on time). The Silver Service leaves DC just after 8 and arrives in Charleston around 5:30 AM making the entire trip just less than 24 hours. For each trip, I brought my laptop, cellular modem and all of the case materials which just about filled up the available space in the sleeper. Once settled, I would boot my laptop, and arrange the case materials on the remainer of the bunk/couch and work until the train arrived in DC. Once there, I would check most of what I wouldn't need for the remainder of the trip and take my laptop and remaining materials to either the Capitol Grille or Johnny's Half-Shell, both of which were less than a block from Union Station where I would work until it was near boarding time. There is a liquor store in Union Station where I would get a 250 ml bottle of Belvedere and a half bottle of wine for the remainder of the trip. I made that trip so often (about every other week for six months out of each year), that the porters and dinning car stewards got to know me and there were always two glasses of ice in my bedroom for cocktails. Try getting that kind of attention on an airplane and don't even bother trying to BYOB! In the one full day that I would spend, each way, either on the train or near the station, I got more done than in a week at the office where I am constantly being interrupted. Having a relaxing day before and after the hearings gave me the time that I needed to prepare before the hearing and to digest what had happened during the hearing. Now I'm not suggesting that traveling 3C would be anything like this, especially when it hits speeds in excess of 110 mph. But it does point out the difference between the glass half empty and the glass half full argument. My colleagues would ask me why I would want to spend the day on the train when I could spend less than half that by flying. I asked them if they opened their laptops or reviewed the case while in the air (no) or on their way to or from the airport (no). I asked them if they went to the office before their flight (no) or upon their return (no). So in their day of traveling, they got nothing done while I put in a day's work. And by the end of the day, I was relaxed and prepared. People who try to compare the trains to planes, cars or buses miss the point. Different modes of transportation require different ways of thinking about how you organize your day, your work and your life.

Husted is just another, eternally campaigning, politician who has selectively tapped into a bipartison concern that government is the servant of special interests rather than the people (with a "special interest" being defined as whatever someone else is interested in that you aren't). Like many people, they don't let facts get in the way of what feels right and, unfortunately, in this economy, nothing feels right. As Obama discovered with health care, you don't try to convince people like him to change his mind. Instead, you demonstrate enough leadership that people trust you more than they trust the other guy. At the start of the health care debates more than 80% of Americans felt that something needed to be done about the system. By the time of the vote, more than half those people no longer supported reform. In part that is because Obama failed to steer the process, instead leaving it up to the Democrats in Congress. It takes real skill to turn a victory into near defeat. Strickland has, unfortunately, not learned that lesson. He is letting his Transportation Secretary fight the battles when he should be stepping up to the front of the line. After all, the guy got the state $400 million. Why is he letting the Husteds paint that as a gun being held to the state's head?

For those who haven't seen this... http://www.weather.com/outlook/videos/tornado-wrecks-train-14734

I'm old enough to remember when you needed to leave a little extra time when going to Hopkins to account for the presence of trains at the Snow Road and Five Points grade crossings.