City Blights

And yes, I don't appreciate people trying to tell me what I do and don't know about Cincinnati seeing how I've did more for people who were forced to slum it than people who now choose to. Because you've taken an interest in OTR in the last five years does not make you an expert on the City of Cincinnati, and not living there anymore does not make you oblivious to its status. Yet you are trying to tell other people what they "do and don't know" about Cincinnati. How about it works both ways? Don't recall I did. I do recall asking what some posters' relationships with OTR and the central city are though. Historic context with the core is relevant to this discussion. We are talking about changing perceptions, aren't we?

And yes, I don't appreciate people trying to tell me what I do and don't know about Cincinnati seeing how I've did more for people who were forced to slum it than people who now choose to. Because you've taken an interest in OTR in the last five years does not make you an expert on the City of Cincinnati, and not living there anymore does not make you oblivious to its status.

More time must pass before we declare OTR safe. More progress must be made before we declare OTR a healthy environment that provides opportunity for people of all backgrounds. The past is a series of factual events by definition. You can't discount it or close your eyes and pretend that OTR looks the way it's depicted on the front of a Christian Moerlein lager. Embracing facts is a novel concept, don't shy away from it.

I was in Cincinnati this past summer and the progress on Main is remarkable. Walnut? Looked like the new Vine. I´ve likely spent more time in OTR than half the people disagreeing with me, during this transition period AND the bad old days. Reality is often a hard pill to swallow, doesn´t mean you can´t take it like an adult. If the best you can come up with is that the fringe areas of a micro-neighborhood fit the description I laid out there, then you just validated everything I said about the state of OTR. It seems in Cincinnati that there are those that take a blind eye in the spirit of optimism, those who stay blind to possibilities (Enquirer crowd) and very little middle ground. I´m a middle ground, case-by-case kind of guy. OTR is still largely a charity case. Be honest with yourself. For the people telling me how strong and self sustainable OTR is, did you grow up within 3 miles of downtown, or are you a newcomer to the core? The majority of those jobs uptown and downtown are going to college grads and people sweeping floors, that´s not exactly middle ground either. Most of downtown´s workers don´t live within 3 miles of downtown, neither does UC´s employee base. OTR and surrounding areas hasn´t had jobs for the people previously forced to live in such a complicated environment in decades. At this point only people that move to OTR with degrees have the resources to enjoy OTR as a resident. That does not qualify as self-sustaining or healthy. 3CDC had to buy up the bottom of Vine just to jumpstart the momentum that was put to a standstill by the riots. OTR has needed every bit of outside influence it could get in the last four years, including a FEMA stimulus.

If she's in her early 30's, downtown has been a listless, free-fire zone her entire life. As she progressed through her prime, OTR got worse, not better. It's hard to convince an entire generation to believe in a place that the City didn't believe in not too long ago. ^ Not sure how old you are but For someone who is in their early 30's, Downtown started its revival when they were 24ish and OTR started its most recent revival when they were 26-27ish. Also-- Someone in their early 30's is still "in their prime". I'd guess the majority of the people writing on here are in their late 20's early 30's with many in their mid 30's as well. The point was that early 30's is NOT old, and yet that person still felt that way. not that they "passed their prime" 5 or 6 years ago. It probably has less to do with age and more to do with where the person grew up. I know people who range from 20 to 70 who know that OTR and downtown are awesome, and I know people who are 20-70 who think it's the scariest place ever. There is an entire generation of people that have only known the city's core as it was in the 90's and 2000s, which was as bad as its been since the TB days. Also, most women in their 30s are considered past their prime. Age certainly isn't the only factor, but it has merit. There are some elderly that fear a lot of things. Downtown's resurgance and OTR's aren't congruent. OTR is still a work in progress south of Liberty, and that section only climbed out of its rut a couple years ago, as in 2009.

If she's in her early 30's, downtown has been a listless, free-fire zone her entire life. As she progressed through her prime, OTR got worse, not better. It's hard to convince an entire generation to believe in a place that the City didn't believe in not too long ago.

Unfortunately, OTR is still terrible and scary. -Vacants, including an outrageous number of fire hazards -An addict's Eden for 50 years -A saturation of social services -Hardly any jobs -Monochromatic demographic that's slowly diluting -Filth -Very high crime -A culture of being the Land of the Lost The most dense area in the City is the farthest from self-sustainability. It's an awful neighborhood with some good people giving it the 'ol college try. That's where we are.

I realize how many irons Cincinnati has and needs to have in the fire just to catch up to the 21st century, however, I can't accept that a new arena, college+pro or not, should not be a priority for the City. Tens of millions don't count for anything anymore? This is all quasi-rhetorical, but not in the pejorative sense.

Hell, the last fifteen years. I really wonder how historic Corryville will feel in 10 years the way the city has sided with developers over said time frame.

^Direct European flights could stand to be restocked a bit, I realize it's not 2001 anymore, but it's not good that CVG is damn near strictly national at this point. Combine that with the Delta monopoly status quo and you get one of the most poorly managed, nepotistic airports anyone could imagine.

Waffling/pacifying at its finest, well at least for American municipal politics.

^If The West End and West Fourth weren't demolished, I think people would feel a little differently about a Philadelphia comparison.

Philly is majority rows, and no I wasn't comparing the quantitiy, I was comparing the non-Federal styles. Still, Cincinnati has more rows than people think. Have you ever been to North Philadelphia? There are some areas that may remind you of Columbus.

Am I wrong here, or does Cincinnati "scream" Philadelphia when you look in certain neighborhoods? As far as St. Louis, the city is amazing, but I think Cincinnati's topography puts it a bit up on St. Louis when it comes to the overall historic atmosphere/feel/attractiveness to the city. You're right on it, Philadelphia is a closer relative to Cincinnati than St. Louis. The two cities share Italianate, a plethora of rows dating from 1850-80 whereas the vast majority of St. Louis' rows are 1880-on, a legacy of soul music, the first two municipal zoos in the country, etc. Cincinnati's architecture and commercial districts are also of a larger scale than two very similar cities, Pittsburgh and St. Louis. It's one reason the Queen City moniker really fit for Cinti. There were other major cities developing in the Middle West, but the scale of old Cincinnati clearly shows its influence at an early age.

^Cincinnati captured in pictures looks ancient, and it's all in the craftsmanship. That and the brick. Even St. Louis' central areas don't scream historic like Cincinnati's. The streetcar will make the city too romantic to ignore.

Bond Hill is not a suburb or surburban. In 1870, Avondale was Cincinnati's most prominent suburb, complete with a national reputation even. Clifton is also a member of that club. Sharing an arena with UC makes sense, depends on whether they would play downtown or not though. I'm sure a lot of that would have to do with student access to the arena (streetcar). The bottom of 6th street provides the lot and the possiblity of community stimulus on the westside of downtown. Annual revenue in the millions either floats to Cleveland or goes out of state because the city doesn't feel any urgency to stake a claim on that revenue.

And how long after it was established did it become a major economic force for Columbus? When was CSU established? Wasn't it about 90 years after OSU? That's a lot of catching up to do. Are you blaming OSU for Columbus' sluggish growth from 1890-1970? The Ohio State University was founded in 1870 in a city that was not about to receive an unprecedented European immigration wave that Cleveland did from 1880-1920. Founding a university in a city that is already an economic force is exclusive from founding a university in a city that wouldn't approach major on its own until the 1990's. Universities didn't make Cleveland, but Ohio State made Columbus. Maybe that's why it took so long.

Ohio State magically appeared thanks to the 19th President of the United States. I agree with you, Cleveland kids have to stay in Cleveland for this to happen though. Most of them that don't go to Kent disperse to OSU, UC and Miami in large numbers, then promptly exit Ohio after graduation or begin their careers where they graduated: Columbus or Cincinnati.

Xavier University on the eastside of Cincinnati is a Jesuit school with clout. To the OP, I would add Cincinnati to your list of distinguished uni towns. Miami is an original "Public Ivy" and UC has numerous top-tier programs such as Music, Medicine and Engineering. Many Cincinnati kids end up going to the University of Dayton, another Ohio private with a strong reputation.

Ethnic enclaves aren't really healthy for a city, even big ones like NY and Chicago. The novelty of a group of people being centralized in one area has proven itself more of a disease than a cure to cultural segregation. I'd prefer to see an ethnic group and the economic assets that community brings to be spread across the city, as Cincinnati is seeing with Asian businesses on the Eastside. Living next door to a Mexican is much more culturally advantageous than driving to a Mexican enclave, eating at a restaurant, then driving home.

Cities with reputations for being destinations for successful people are going to have more wealthy individuals per capita. For example, the Pacific Northwest has the fastest growing Jewish community in the country after almost 200 years of having next to no Jews. Not saying that all Jews are wealthy, but as an ethnic classification, the average household income of Jewish people is pretty high. Columbus will rise dramatically in the next 15 years with its high Asian population for similar reasons, but at the moment it doesn't have a national reputation for much of anything outside of OSU. Portland? A forward-thinking, liberal, relaxed music town is the rep that city has built up over 20 years. It's gonna take another 10 or 15 for Columbus to resonate nationally.

That boring rail commute to work and school is what puts many cities ahead of Cincinnati in the 21st Century. A streetcar to Northside through Clifton and past Cincinnati State would hold massive repopulating power in the inner core. Having Mt. Adams, Uptown, Walnut Hills/Evanston and Northside connected to downtown would make Cincinnati the most entertaining, exciting, tourist-friendly city in Ohio by a mile. That won't happen with just gondolas to Mt. Adams. More practical routes of transit serving Walnut Hills/Evanston and Northside would create a city within a city, one that I could see populating to 300k just by itself very quickly, not including the large residential areas of the city like the Westside, College Hill and others. The gondola is a great idea if Cincinnati is able to connect the Art Museum to downtown. That's another check off of the list of fantastic assets that the city has to work on connecting to downtown via fixed transit.

I've been to Grown Folks before, nothing has ever happened, but I can't speak as strongly about that establishment as I can Jeff's. Jeff's is about as tame as they come. A large patio for talking and smoking, a tiny, tiny dance floor, pool table, and the bar with a friendly local woman pouring drinks. Been in there several times, the only reason I could ever imagine a disturbance there would be if a group of punks from another part of town came in there and started disrespecting people. Never seen it happen in person though.

Cincinnati and Hamilton County are ran poorly, but not for the reasons you outline. These fit the bill much more snugly: -Antequated tax code. -Outdated arena. The city misses out on several million annually that goes to Cleveland. -No dedicated bus lanes. Inexcusable off the top, but deplorable when you reflect on the lack of rail transit. -No late night buses on weekends. Cincinnati's nightlife for many is defined by proximity to a certain area, not where they would prefer to go. Northside, Hyde Park and downtown would be big winners with overnight service. Perfect for Mt. Adams and its limited parking.

What "dangerous bar" up the street on Joyce are you referencing? You mentioned dangerous establishments in the area a couple times, I'm curious to what places specifically.