scotts

Those rents seem REALLY high for Youngstown. Granted, it's only 23 units but does Youngstown have the economy to support those types of rents for these levels of finish? They're nice but they're not luxury. They are Cleveland's prices without Cleveland's white collar jobs. I'll be interested to see how this turns out and hope that there are more residential developments coming for downtown Youngstown.

I don't think they were "sitting" on the idea. They've obviously done a lot of work in fully investigating the idea, researching other facilities, hiring an architect, etc. They have more ambitious plans than Jacobs and want to do it without public money. In the middle of a recession, that's a tough sell and they probably wanted to wait out on announcing this. Bonar's idea sounds a lot more appealing than just shoving an aquarium into the Powerhouse. The West bank is dead and there aren't easy ways for tourists to get there. It makes lots of sense for Jacobs as it breathes some life into his property over there but it's not in the best interest of the city and doesn't provide the benefits that such an aquarium should provide.

KJP - I was clearly talking about WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF YOUNGSTOWN. MayDay seems to understand what I was getting at. If Youngstown had the things the OP was looking for, I would have suggested them. But they don't. You don't have a lot of options in this area, so I think looking beyond your immediate wishes is a good exercise. You might find something you didn't think you'd like but actaully do.

I never said I had preferences for suburban or rural area. I'd take either one over living in Youngstown but once I sell my rural house, I'm likely moving to downtown Cleveland. I generally hate suburbs and prefer to either live in a vibrant area with lots to do or someplace secluded where I can own several acres, not live on top of someone, and not deal with the ridiculousness of an HOA. I can make it clear that I'd rather have $100 million dollars than what I currently have but it doesn't mean that it's magically going to happen. Youngstown might have "historical" homes but they are not in that nice of areas and Youngstown doesn't really even have "walkable" neighborhoods in the same sense that Cleveland does. Youngstown isn't Cleveland. It's not Akron. It's not Lakewood. It's not Cleveland Heights. Even if you live in the historic houses on Wick, you can't walk to the store. There aren't any stores nearby except the occasional run down convenience store. You're still driving everywhere. And living on the west side is basically suburban living. My parents lived in Youngstown when it was thriving. I lived there up until the early 90's. The steel mills closing crushed the city. The gangs stuck the final nail in the coffin. Most people "escaped" the city from 1990-2000 and with 100% good reason. They weren't scared of a minority. They were scared of the highest murder rate in the United States, the heaviest gang activity in between New York and LA and the destruction of the South and East (which leaked into the North plenty) sides of the city. "it is what it is" isn't a cop out at all. It's reality. The city is attempting to recover from the damage done from the steel mills and gangs but it takes time. The focus isn't on residential right now. The focus is on cleaning up the garbage and encouraging business growth. At this point in time, I wouldn't recommend that someone with a family move into the city. The schools are bad, crime is still present, and you're still driving to the suburbs for most of your needs. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit your romanticized view of urban life but such a life doesn't exist in Youngstown right now. It might 10 years from now, and I hope it does. I love Youngstown and would love to see the city make a big comeback. A lot of people are working very hard to make that happen. Success doesn't come over night and the type of things that you want out of residential are far down the line. You need to look at the present situation and make the best decision.

I don't think Brownlee woods is that nice of an area at all. The houses aren't anything spectacular and you have a lot of lower residents who (sadly) don't keep up on their houses at all. I think I stumbled into the point I was trying to make. I'm all for urban renewal and revitalizing cities. However, areas in Cleveland like Ohio City and Tremont have legitimate gentrification. Youngstown does not. It is what it is and you Cleveland to Youngstown isn't an apples to apples comparison. The current goals in Youngstown are to downsize, not grow. The only real growth that the city wants right now is with the University and business side of things. And that's understandable since those are the two most realistic options. Once houses start getting torn down and property is better maintained (especially on the North side), you might start to see some people moving back. That's not going to happen overnight. I think Youngstown has probably already hit its bottom and it's not the crime capital it was in the 90's, but it's still not the best place to live. I'm not sure where you live but I'd be interested to hear why moving to Youngstown improved your quality of life. The west side pretty much feels like Austintown, the far north side feels like Liberty and the far south side feels like Boardman. There really isn't any residential pockets that are close to downtown or anything...I guess I just don't understand the comment. As for my comment on "people with money", I pretty much meant the middle-class, including lower-middle class. I'm sure if you looked at the income brackets of the city, it would support that 100%. The south-west side of the city maintained itself well during the "downfall" of Youngstown but everything else (mostly) became either a ghost town or ghetto.

I wouldn't choose to live in East Cleveland or many neighborhoods in Cleveland either. I grew up in Youngstown (south side) and its a completely different place then when I was a child. I did my undergrad at Youngstown State and am very familiar with the north side as well. It's definitely not the type of place I'd choose to live. You're very close to housing projects and are pretty much surrounded by dilapidated homes. While the homes on 5th Avenue are very beautiful and historic, I don't generally think of the area as someplace I'd want to be around. In other words, you're not going to be walking around the neighborhood, walking to work, etc. I'm definitely not against city living, but Youngstown is just not the type of city I'd want to live in. Poland is still a nice area with a good school district but yeah, it's relatively typical suburbia. Like I said, you're either going to get suburbia or you're going to get rural. It's the way Youngstown is. Everyone with the money to do so fled the city. You don't really see new home construction or anything like that in the city itself. Now "downtown" has come a LONG way since I graduated from YSU (which was only 2003, so you can see that plans are in place), however, the residential side of things is probably a long ways off.

I think you're going to have a real hard time finding anything that meets your description. The Wick Park area qualifies, but I would HIGHLY suggest not moving to the City of Youngstown. It's simply not that safe of a place to live and you'll be traveling to the suburbs for pretty much all your needs as it is. Also, as already mentioned, the schools are bad. If you're not living on the west side, public schools are not even an option. Even in west side where folks suggested living by Mill Creek Park isn't that nice, though that area is definitely the safest within the city limits. I would suggest they buy my house (I live in Milton Township). It's currently for sale by owner :) 4 BR's, two acres, walking distance to public fishing area, baseball fields, driving range and you only have one neighbor (other neighbor is state-owned woods). and there are probably 6 or 7 golf courses within 5-10 minutes of driving. In all serious though, you can find lots of (relatively) cheap land in townships like North Jackson, Lake Milton, Berlin, and Ellsworth. You don't really have an "urban" option in Youngstown, so your best bets are to go suburban or rural. I definitely prefer rural. There is lots of nature to see in these areas (and on your own property. my backyard always seems to have ducks, geese, deer, etc.) as well as two great recreational lakes to enjoy during the summer.

Some information is up at: http://www.forrent.com/apartment-community-profile/1000057159.php They have floor plans available for viewing as well as community info. The name is also listed as "The Residences at Six Six Eight". Besides the tiny one bedroom they have listed, the floor plans look fairly generous, so I wonder how much the rent is going to be. They also have a "two story" fitness center listed as a feature which is a great bonus - hopefully it's a good size. A lot of the fitness centers in downtown buildings are way too small for the size of the building and don't offer much equipment.

I don't know if this counts for the 3BR units, as I have not seen one but the other units all had VERY small bedrooms. I know you're not going to get huge bedrooms in most downtown buildings but these seemed almost too small. I've also soured on that general area. It's too gloomy and desolate during the evenings when there aren't Cavs or Indians home games. Three bedrooms in the warehouse district are mostly going to be expensive but Crittenden should be the cheapest. It's a decent building, it's just not the loft style like all the other Warehouse District apartments. It's much more "apartment like" if that makes sense. You don't get the exposed brick, ductwork, updated kitchens etc. but you also get a lot more natural light, more room, and cheaper rent.

Thanks WarehouseGal! I've pretty much given up on the theater/gateway area. Compared to the Warehouse District, it just feels dark and dingy. Outside of business hours and game nights, there seems to be more bums around than regular folks. The Warehouse district is brighter, less dreary and seems to have much better energy. One question about the Hat Factory, is it loud inside your apartment on the weekends w/ all the w. 6th street noise from the bar crowds?

The prices definitely seem a little high for rentals in Tremont. I don't really care for the location of them at all, even if they were a little lower in cost.

I get the resentment over that but overall, this project should end up doing a LOT more good than it is harm and may even lead to new construction in the area. However, from what I've been reading about Stonebridge, it doesn't sound like K&D is very good with their property. They seem to have noise issues over there and bedbug issues at Reserve Square.

Nice to see that this project is coming along. That part of Euclid is a really great central location. I've read through all of this and just had a quick comment. The developers seem to be taking a lot of hits for tearing down a building for a parking lot. While in large cities like Chicago, downtown parking for apartments may be discouraged, it's inevitable in a city like Cleveland. Public transportation in Cleveland pales in comparison to Chicago. While some aspects of it are good, downtown Cleveland is not the sustainable area that Chicago is. You can live in downtown Chicago and never have a need to leave the city limits. The same cannot be said for Cleveland. Having a car is pretty much a necessity. As someone who is looking to live downtown, I can tell you that if a building like this did not have good parking, I'd have no desire to live there and I think most potential residents are in this same boat. Downtown Cleveland has a lot going for it but it also has a lot of problems. One of those problems is fixed by owning a car. In order to grow to the potential that downtown Cleveland has, it needs to happen through a series of progressions. Right now, residences without convenient parking are going to fail. Things need to go one step at a time and the current step is getting people to live downtown, so you must cater to what people who are looking to live downtown want. It might be a nice fantasy to tons of people living in the city and getting around on public transport but it's not a reality and isn't going to be a reality for some time...baby steps.

I've already toured Reserve Square, Statler Arms, Chesterfield (what a dump), Osbourne/Huron, and the 1900 Euclid Lofts. Are there any other buildings in this area that I'm missing. I want to also look at Prospect Place and Pointe at Gateway but I'm just wondering if there are other smaller buildings around that area that I can't find online. Thanks!

I think it was 150 for a unreserved spot and 170 or 180 for a reserved at Statler. Reserve Square and Chesterfield's garages were around 85 or so. I noticed a surface lot that is just down the road from Statler on Euclid for $95 a month. I'm not sure what else is available around there. I'll have to look around one day. I just wish I could get a handle on how "on top" of the bug situation K&D is. If they are actually on the ball, I'd probably just move into Reserve Square. For $1050 you get a 2BR, a balcony (which is really nice to have), an indoor pool, and a high quality workout facility, a full grocery store, a bar and a couple restaurants on site. The building looked clean as did the units we toured (which were furnished suites), so I'm not sure how much of the bug situation is a building-wide issue and how much of it is more based on a few dirty tenants (which you're going to get in a building that large). I've lived in apartment buildings where dirty tenants had roach problems and my apartment had no issues at all. On the same token, I've heard stories of extremely clean tenants having bugs because of others around them.