jborger

You would think this would give it more historical standing...

What will be done with the current Public Auditorium? There's problems with every location...

Is it too late to build a Med Mart/Convention Center behind Tower City, next to the casino? Destroying Mall C and leaving Public Auditorium to rot just isn't worth it. Maybe $1 billion in development along Ontario and Huron wouldn't be such a bad thing...

Yes. They will have "a few" according to people involved with the casino that I have heard speak. They want to speak to local restauranteurs about opening restaurants inside the casino. But they won't have 10 restaurants -- they've stated that downtown Cleveland already has established restaurants and they're not trying to make the casino into a bunker where no body leaves.

Subsidizing food prices at a downtown Cleveland casino doesn't make financial sense. You might see that it some places (like Vegas) where there's a lot of casinos because they're trying to get the other guy's customers. There will just be one casino here. Also, you're in the middle of a city with a lot of other things going on. People live and work here already. So if a casino restaurant had some great deal that they were losing money on, you'd have business workers coming in on their lunch break, eating for cheap and then leaving without spending any cash gambling. They'll make more money with market-level priced restaurants. They can't give out free alcohol, either, without being in violation of state law. And the idea that casinos pump in oxygen is a myth: http://www.snopes.com/luck/casino.asp

Hopefully Gilbert will put some money towards the towpath in the same way that Steelyard Commons did. But I hope it looks better... Bike racks outside a casino entrance? Haha, that could be interesting!

There were "Yes On Issue 3" signs posted all over the main concourses in Tower City. Before Issue 3 passed, Gilbert's team said they already had an option to build on the land. Forest City backed Issue 3, even if they weren't public about it.

Bye!

Considering Ohio law doesn't even allow grocery stores to give out free wine samples (that's why you have to pay a quarter) I don't see any type of free alcohol coming to Ohio casinos for a long while, if ever.

I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of cheap steaks at the casino. Have you seen the food prices at The Q? Ouch...

What?

Agreed. My parents live in Avon. My mom loves slot machines. She'll come downtown more once the casino is built. (even though all three of her children live in Cleveland, but that's another story...)

Exactly. And they shouldn't. It should be kept as greenspace. If I recall correctly, Peter Lewis wanted to build a Progressive Insurance skyscraper on Mall C.... But this sounds like building on Mall C to me: "Rather than locate the mart at the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street, the developers will likely build on a lakefront mall west of City Hall, Jones said." That's crap. With Public Auditorium now not being a part of this project and the Medical Mart going ON Mall C, I'd rather see the whole thing over at Tower City...

Cleveland.com also has an article about Tudor Arms becoming a DoubleTree Hotel: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/11/tudor_arms.html - Maron family is restoring the property. It's a $22 million project - 154-room hotel - Vintage swimming pool - Wood-paneled lobby - Space has been empty since 2007 - Will include a 2,500-square-foot restaurant facing Stokes Boulevard - Restored ballrooms and event spaces on the second floor - 25,000 square feet of offices on the third and fourth floors - Hotel rooms on floors 5-11 - Hotel and restaurant should employ 75 people

I believe Huron and Ontario will be the main entrance. You can leave The Q and walk across the street to the casino. It will also be the "middle" of the complex. It will stretch out west down Huron and southeast towards Tower City Amphitheater. Len did mention the Time Warner Amphitheater by name when staying where it would be built.... I think they might get rid of it and build something new because he also mentioned "concert venues" at the casino. You can build a lot with $600 million....

Could that be what they mean from this language in the amendment, talking about the various pieces of land they want? "All air rights above the approximately 0.87 acre parcel of property situated along and south of Ontario Street in close proximity to the intersection of W. Huron Road and Ontario Street."

Today, I went to go hear Len Komoroski, president of the Cavs, speak at the City Club about Issue 3. Just some more notes on the potential casino development: Dan Gilbert seems to be really focused on urban cores. Len said that when Penn National first approached Gilbert, they wanted to build casinos around racetracks. Gilbert wasn't interested. He only signed to be on board when Penn agreed to build the casinos in downtowns across Ohio. He's moving his 2,000 Quicken Loan employees in Detroit from the suburbs to a new downtown Detroit headquarters. He supports entrepreneurs in Detroit financially with the stipulation that they must base their companies downtown... I mention all of this because they really seem to believe this will be a good thing for development in downtown Cleveland. Yes, he obviously wants to make a profit, but he's far more concerned about downtown Cleveland than the TruthPAC group that's running all of those anti Issue 3 ads... In regards to the site, the casino WILL be built at the corner of Huron and Ontario. I asked about the land and he said they already have land rights to build there so no more negotiations need to be done in that area. They want a strong, street level presence. They're set to get underway right after Issue 3 passes. The Cleveland casino could open as early as late 2011, but a more realistic date is early 2012. Len said opportunities exist to connect the casino to Tower City, but says it's too early to make any decision on that right now. Len also emphasized that the casino will not have tons of restaurants. Several times throughout the presentation, he said many casinos that are not in urban cores have 10 restaurants and a hotel and all those types of things because they need them -- there's nothing else around. This will not be the case with the Cleveland casino. They want to work with local restauranteurs for the few restaurants the casino will have. But he said the average person will stay in the casino for 2.5 hours -- similar to someone going to a Cavs game. They don't want it to be a bunker that traps people inside. Even though the issue says a minimum of $250 million must be spent to develop each casino, Gilbert has committed $500-$600 million for the Cleveland casino. Len said having a (relatively) smaller licensing fee is allowing them to spend more on development than other casinos across the country. They estimate the Cleveland casino will bring in 8 million visitors a year -- more than double the number of people that watch the Cavs, Indians and Browns combined. They claim that people who book conventions look for cities with casinos so the casino will make Cleveland more appealing to conventions. We were talking about downtown Cleveland occupancy rates earlier in this thread... Len said our hotel occupancy rate is 48 percent. The Cleveland casino should add 5,000 temporary jobs for construction, plus 4,000 long term jobs. When someone else pressed Len on that number, he seemed to include jobs that would be directly benefited from the casino -- sign companies, delivery drivers, etc.. The actual number of people on the Cleveland casino payroll would be 2,500-3,000. Tax revenue from the casino for the City of Cleveland alone is estimated to be $30 million a year.

Just to clarify again... I believe we should have a new, large hotel attached to the CONVENTION CENTER not attached to the CASINO -- which is what this thread is about.

I don't understand why people seem to be upset about a hotel not being attached to the casino right now. Cleveland's hotel vacancy rate is fairly high. I don't know if another hotel is needed right now, unless it was a 500+ room hotel, which would make more sense to be attached to the new convention center than the casino. Not having a hotel attached to the casino could make people look elsewhere for lodging, getting people out of the casino and into the rest of downtown. Plus, they're already building a new hotel on the Flats East Bank...

I was walking the dog down West 6th Street last night when I noticed the lights on at 1281 West 6th Street - a building that's been vacant for a while. It's connected to 1277 West 6th Street, which is also vacant. Anyway, there was a building permit on the door that seemed to be authorizing the construction of a new wall between 1281 and 1277. Because that could be (was?) one space. The load wall in the center is not a load bearing one. I took the pictures below with my cell phone camera so they're not of McCleveland quality. :) Anyone know the history/status of this space? There's way too many vacant spaces on West 6th Street. Those two, the retail floor of The Hat Factory building and that small spot between Blue Point Grill and Sin nightclub. And don't get me started on Johnson Court...

Ohio's Issue 3 an important part of downtown Cleveland development From the article: "Normally, if a developer said he wanted to spend his own money to build a brand new entertainment facility in downtown Cleveland, everyone in Northeast Ohio would be cheering for it. Unless, of course, that facility was a casino." Main points are: the stigma gambling has in Ohio benefits from a development standpoint of having a casino in downtown Cleveland links to location maps links to supporters of Issue 3 comparing fears of casino taking away business from others to fear of East Fourth Street development the "We should be focused on other areas" argument the "It didn't work in other cities" argument Read the complete article at http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-6824-Downtown-Cleveland-Examiner~y2009m10d20-Ohios-Issue-3-an-important-part-of-downtown-Cleveland-development

There's already a pedestrian tunnel that runs from the Tower City food court under Huron to The Q. If the casino was built on the parking lots between Tower City and the river, I would think adding a casino entrance off that tunnel would be pretty easy.

How about this: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111073887364519458387.00047612c522c1d845dd8&ll=41.493921,-81.690645&spn=0.015365,0.0418&z=15

But the same argument could (and has) been made about East 4th Street - is it really bringing in new people to eat in the city, or just shifting diners from the Warehouse District, Ohio City and Tremont? I believe that with East 4th (and the casino) all ships rise with the tide. Get more people downtown and you're giving those restaurants more opportunities to grab new diners. If they fail to do so, hey, that's capitalism. This latest round of complaints about the casino was brought on by a lobbying group that wants ALL restaurants and bars (and bowling alleys) to be able to bring in slot machines. I find it strange they chose to hold their event at D'Vine -- as if D'Vine would shove a bunch of slot machines in there if they were given the chance.