dean

You're correct. The Dean is muddying the issue deliberately. I believe the $185 submitted for the stimulus would be used on the next two phases as well, and if it was just called 'phase 1' in the request I'm sure it was an omission. You're correct. I have, on more than one occassion, personally informed Mr. Haap (aka The Dean) about the correct route, phasing, and respective costs of each. The easiest and most clear breakdown can be seen here: http://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/the-project/ This link has been provided to Mr. Haap probably a half a dozen times, maybe more. The answers to his questions about the route, phasing, and respective costs are all right there and presented in a colorful and easy to read manner. You can check out the full GoogMap version here: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=111016685324550263695.0004608905e32b3f80b3a&z=13 And just to break it down for you once more:

Jason Haap has not been asking question so that he can get answers. He is merely asking questions to ask questions. It is a strategy to try to surround the project with doubt to those who don't have the time or energy to closely follow the facts. Many of his questions have already been answered for him to turn around and pose the same question the next chance he gets. Let them talk amongst themselves. On Explore Cincinnati, I remember my number of $215 million being criticized. If memory serves, they went with the $102 number. If the number is $185, then I was closer to the accurate amount. Part of your problem is that instead of providing clear answers, you say things like "check the other 195 pages." Or, "read X-number of reports and get back to me." This strategy will not work for you long term. Why engage it? For example, if I go to the Cincinnati Streetcar web page (a place that should have accurate information, IMHO), I find this: " Phase 1 of the streetcar system will cost only $102 million. " Well, that is not true, is it? Phase 1 will cost $185 million? Or, was the federal government given wrong information in the request for stimulus money? You can't have it all these ways...

Is that all you can do? Insult us pesky little dissenters with our bothersome questions?

Honest question here: Does anyone know the situation regarding sewer credits as it pertains to potential OTR development? Thanks. (Reference)

http://winburnreport.com/Winburn%20Downtown%20Trolleys.pdf

The first loop of the streetcar route is already developed. Aronoff, Fountain Square, Cadillac Ranch, and so forth. Vine Street in OTR, Gateway Quarter, and all the buildings already under redevelopment. Washington Park, the new SCPA -- all of it. Without a streetcar. So what, is the streetcar going to make them develop all this again?

No, they better spend millions on rails so people can "be comforted by knowing where the route goes." Get a grip.

Bearcast Radio DJ tags buses for "creeps and weirdos".

No problem. With a full time job and two small kids, I have nothing but time. ;-)

I'm happy to debate, but not in a chaotic format like this. I see Jake and his DJ friend have said their radio program will respond to our rebuttal. Expect a more organized and detailed list for them to refute on the air in the next day or so, to be published at The Beacon. Again, keep telling everyone that you are the experts and the rest of us aren't as smart as you. We'll see how that strategy pays off at the ballot box. By the way, apparently I have read more than you think I have. I just don't understand what some of you are talking about. For example, one of you keeps talking about subsidies to the bio-fuel industry whenever I ask about government subsidies to development (why hasn't anyone stated a dollar amount yet?). But why do you wish to talk about subsidies to bio-fuel? I'm not talking about subsidies to King Coal. It's a red herring, dropped in the middle of accusing me of dropping red herrings. Very weird. My weekend free time is up. It's been real, guys.

You're welcome to answer as you please. But I was specifically looking for constructive criticism on the plan that is on the table, not pie in the sky wishes for Light Rail or the advice to not proceed at all. I'm giving you the opportunity to take what may not be a perfect plan and make it better. If you don't want to participate constructively, that's fine, but please don't claim that we aren't willing to accept input from those with opposing viewpoints. You forbade the answer "add buses," which means that the idea of, say, a painted line bio-fuel tire trolley is not acceptable. I don't understand that.

Happy to. Mayor Mallory's Climate Change Task Force studied this extensively using VMT and other data that were explicitly calculated by the economists who investigated the downtown leg of the Cincinnati Streetcar. The reduction in CO2 caused by the decrease in Vehicle Miles Travelled due to mode shifts from car to streetcar was about 2:1. In other words, for every unit of CO2 produced by burning coal to generate electricity to power the streetcar, two units of CO2 were reduced because there was less driving. Furthermore, when you start to figure-in the dense settlement patterns that are likely to develop because of the presence of the streetcar, the reductions are more like, I recall, 5:1 or 6:1 because, as Dean saw in the photos he so disparages, people start to live their everyday lives around the streetcar, livng closer to where they work, buying groceries near where they live, entertaining themselves closer to home. They live in multi-family dwellings which are inherently more energy efficient. It's clear The Dean has little awareness of the subject. He is being fed talking points by rail opponents and has a very shallow understanding of what is involved. It's not been pretty to see what has unfolded over the past few days. I kinda feel sorry for him. You don't make any sense. You are offsetting the CO2 from coal burning due to people driving less. The same would happen with a bio-fuel trolley.

I believe you're referring to me, and if so, I did nothing of the sort. Here's what I ACTUALLY said: Please stop misquoting. I said nothing of streetcars being worse. Assuming that a streetcar and biodiesel bus did emit an identical number of emissions, clearly it's better to not have them spewed directly into the lungs of passengers and pedestrians. Really? Then what do you call posts like the following? I understand that you've partially addressed these questions in your most recent post, and I appreciate that. But please don't pretend that we're closed minded and not trying to address the concerns that opponents may have: Whatever. In that example, I am asked a question, then banned from giving a number of answers. What if one of those banned answers is the one I think correct? Should I be prevented from giving it? (Hell, I'm starting to feel like I'm in chapter 6 of Plato's Republic. Keep up the good work, Thrasymachus.)

And for the record -- if you want the rest of us to care about whether you stay here or not, stop stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum when things don't go your way. Look (not that you care), but I did not run away from the City to live in West Chester. I'm here. I'm staying here. I decided I cared about my City and I have made it a home. So I think I have a bit more at stake than some people with no roots, no investment, who can just haul off and leave on a whim.

What are you talking about? Are you on a campaign against the car? Newsflash - we have them now. Let's talk about serving the society that exists, not the utopia in your imagination.