DaninDC

Have you thought about starting a food co-op?

If they're going to be discussing Vision and Challenges, I'm guessing this isn't so much architecturally-oriented.

^^^Now you understand why urbanites are so resentful of suburbanites?

I'm sure the District will be more than happy to accept cash donations.

^Well put, Amrap. But why do the majority of homeless shelters have to be in DC? Why do our taxpayers have to bear a disproportionate share of the burden, especially when Fairfax County is one of the wealthiest in the nation? The one thing I really resent is that we bear the brunt of the homeless problem. Why? Because at some point or another, those who are scared of the homeless moved way out to the suburbs. Now, we're expected to sweep the homeless under the rug to maintain an appearance for the very same people who abandoned the city. I'm not saying this is your attitude, Amrap (you made your position very clear), but I'm afraid it is the attitude of many. In Detroit, for example, the city spends tax dollars on extra police to keep the homeless away from the casinos, lest the homeless "scare away" suburbanites and tourists. During the week of Super Bowl XL, the city rounded up all the homeless, and shuttled them to an out-of-the-way location away from downtown, lest the visitors and media see that *egads* there are homeless people in the city.

Apparently, AmrapinVA rides a completely different Metro system than I do. His suburban disenchantment jades him. The Metro Transit Police are pretty vigilant with sweeping the stations. Aside from that, it's more-or-less self-policing. Rarely do you get hit up for money on a train, and unlike New York and Chicago, passengers don't even attempt to walk between cars. I wish I could explain it. Where AmrapinVA lives, they don't worry about things like the homeless. They make sure that to get anywhere, you have to drive a car, and that the public transportation that does exist isn't very practical. They let us city folk contend with annoyances like the regional homeless problem, and then look down on the city for not being smart enough to deliberately exclude them as the suburban folk do.

I say they only get the abatements if they don't build suburban vinyl-clad P.O.S. like that Mill Creek disaster.

Aside from Boston's Big Dig, much of which is slated to become parkland, there's San Francisco's Embarcadero Freeway. It was severely damaged in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake. Rather than rebuild the freeway, the city tore it down. People predicted massive, never-ending gridlock. Oddly enough, people found other ways to work, and traffic was actually *reduced* in the former freeway corridor. Since then, the area has become an attractive location for new development. Too bad Albert Porter's ghost calls the shots at ODOT, huh?

And this still does nothing to solve the real cause of the problem, which is 90% of Americans have to get in the car for something as simple as buying a loaf of bread. Not to get too political, but it always amazes me that right-wing folks have such blind faith in science--yet there are relatively few scientists among their ranks. We have to start being rational, and dispense with the Eisenhower-era "Better Living Through Chemistry" and "Our Friend the Atom" approaches to everything.

^Some people get jobs, ya know.

I personally have a real problem with generalizations like this. Anyone who says something like this wrongly assumes that everyone else wants the same things and has the same goals that he/she does. Frankly, I'm thrilled to be single, have no kids, growing my career, and living an enjoyable life while I'm young. There is no rule that says you need to be married with children by the time you reach age 30. It's no wonder, then, that people who don't share this vision run to the coasts--you keep laying guilt trips on people like us for not sharing your own utopian vision of life. If it works for you, that's great, but it may not work for me.

^Baltimore Camden Station has since been converted into a strictly stub-end station.

I agree it is definitely rare to have a rail station in the CBD. I'm thinking back to Burnham's Mall Plan for DC, when Union Station was located to the east end of the Mall and north of the Capitol. Previously, the B&O Station was directly on the Mall, I believe pretty close to the current location of the Museum of American History. Even when Penn Station was built in New York, it was pretty well outside the CBD, and Baltimore's Penn Station is about 1.5 miles uptown, although Camden Station is in the CBD. I did forget that the other Chicago rail stations were stub-ends: North Western Station (now Ogilvie), La Salle Street, and Millenium Station. This is likely due to Chicago's historical significance as a rail transfer hub from eastern ports and manufacturing centers to points west.

Is this really true? Perhaps there were more in the past, when there was more rail service nationally, but the only stations that I can think of that are stub-ends are Chicago Union Station (stub ends to both the north and the south), and Boston North and South Stations. Even Washington Union Station, which has mostly stub-tracks since it is the end of the electrified NEC, has several through-tracks for service to Virginia and points south. Just curious to know how valid this is.

^You weren't serious about the "Fashion Centre" being beautiful, were you? Please tell me you were kidding. Faux palm trees in Northern Virginia in January--kinda reeks of pretentiousness.

Clevelanders, of all people, should know that just because a building has multiple retail outlets, doesn't equate it with a crappy suburban mall. There used to be something called an "arcade". Having stores on the ground floor of an office/residential building is more in-line with the arcade concept than the suburban mall ridiculousness. Drives me nuts when people think "retail = mall". Yuck!

Remember kids--stereotypes exist for a reason!

Ballston Common is in Arlington. Not quite downtown (only 7 miles off). Oddly enough, Prudential Center also has a rail station (Back Bay Station) beneath it. The Prudential "mall" seems to cater to the workers in the building, though. The streets of that city are so wonderful to walk, I don't know who in their right mind would seek refuge in retail bunker. The Red Line essentially follows railroad rights-of-way. It could be the basis of a commuter rail system, but I think TOD on all the unnecessary park-and-ride lots would be easier to accomplish (and generate more tax revenue).

I agree--Tower City was merely the proverbial straw. I believe by the time Tower City opened, the Galleria was already starting to slide. Most of downtown's decline was definitely due to the loss of population (and density) both in the city and downtown, as suburban sprawl accelerated in the 1980s. Curious to know where these "downtown malls" in Boston and DC are, though!

I would argue that Tower City has helped to suffocate other retail downtown. Once inside the enclosed confines of the mall, what motivation does the typical person have to go outside and walk down Euclid Avenue? If Tower City were to be converted back into a train station, I wouldn't necessarily eliminate the retail component. The Union Stations in Chicago and DC have a fair share of stores (which pay rent to Amtrak). The stores have a built-in customer base, between daily commuters and intercity passengers, and the passengers can browse and shop while waiting for their train. No reason TC couldn't behave similarly (although other downtown retail needs to be allowed to exist along the streets).

Things are kinda funny like that. It's amazing how many cities have found that the best use for an old train station is...a train station!

For Cincy's sake, I really hope this comes to fruition. You get the benefits of rail transit, even if it's not as fast or quite as sexy as light rail, or a subway. The costs are lower (I think DC's line under construction is costing $10 million for 1.1 miles), so you don't necessarily have to run to the FTA for funding, which has been very anti-rail and pro-BRT since 2001. I don't think you can lose, as long as you make the business case. Numbers like that, though, speak for themselves. Once Cincy has its streetcars up and running, perhaps its big brother on the lake could learn a thing or two.

^I'd be cool with that, but do you think the Rat(ner)s will bite?

"Dual Hub" might be fun to spell in brick.

But you better not max out your card. A maxed-out credit card would make ED-209 very unhappy.