slumcat

^Check the terms of the agreement with the feds. Don't think they can cut the ops back to just certain days.

I believe those HealthLine buses are articulated hybrids...and I too thought that was kind of a strange choice for what would certainly become a high capacity corridor. I believe back around 2003...maybe it was...GCRTA was thinking in terms of trolleybuses. Anyway, I always wondered why they didn't just run the Waterfront line from South Harbor back into downtown by going south on E. 18th as streetcar to Euclid and then turning at Euclid and running the line out Euclid to Windermere as streetcar/light rail. Anyway, that would render the east side of the red line pretty much redundant so they could cancel that end of the red line and recoup some operating costs that way...I think 79th would be the only stop losing service. I gotta believe they looked at this and maybe came up with some cost or engineering barriers? Anyway, I suppose with the new Cedar University station closing the east segment of the red line is probably off the table.

Anybody got a picture of a typical pole they wanna post? I'd like to see what kind of design they chose.

Look at this, more national level news about Cincinnati... http://www.nationalcorridors.org/df3/df08252014.shtml#Streetcars

^Of course they are still saying this. And they will continue to do so. Try googling “red herring as a literary device examples.” This comes up. “Common Example of Red Herring Some examples of red herring fallacy in casual conversations are given below: Mother: ‘It’s bedtime Jane:’ Jane: ‘Mom, how do ants feed their babies?’
 This conversation shows how a child tries to distract her mother so that she [Jane] could stay awake a little longer.” OK, here’s our made up example: Adult: 'Why are we sitting on such a huge socio-economic divide in Cincinnati? Why is so much of our building stock and infrastructure decaying? What can City Hall do to address these problems?' "Child": 'It’s because the streetcar is diverting resources that could better be spent on higher priorities.' This conversation shows how politicians try to duck difficult issues by pointing at decisions made in the past, over which the sitting politician has/had little control. OK, somebody google “scapegoat”.

^ Shhhh! I hope city hall doesn't see this or they will no doubt try again to stop the streetcar on the hypothetical possibility that somebody might try this. :wink: BTW, here's another one:

^Streetcar surfing in Bratislava; don't try this at home. OR THIS:

This video was posted on the Cincinnati Streetcar thread a few years ago, but probably is more to the point here and is well worth re-posting.

After 8 years and 700 pages...and countless news reports and talk shows...it's incredible how much misinformation is still floating around about the streetcar. I was in a bar the other day showing some people my Facebook page and they noticed that I had clicked the "like" button for Cincinnati Streetcar, Finish the Streetcar, and Believe in Cincinnati. They said "well, I'm sure you heard, the streetcar went bust...it's losing money horribly right now." I said "except that GE and probably Rhinegeist as well as some smaller businesses have already made locational decisions at least in part based on the streetcar." The people I was with said "Oh no!...those kind of announcements you've been hearing are all very recent...the streetcar has been around 6 or 8 years and was declared a bust years ago...it has lost so much money!" The only way I can imagine that people would say things like this is if somebody thinks it was completed years ago and has been operating below ridership projections for some time. This isn't even the alternative reality of some of the media...it's the alternative reality of some imaginary world :drunk:. It's like when one of the contributors to this thread (sorry, don't remember your screen name :oops:) was told by someone downtown "Oh! That building over there...it's the Banks...it will never happen!" (Except they were pointing to a fully leased completed structure, and now GE is going in there yet to boot)!

The Enquirer ran a couple of interesting articles the last few days. A day or two ago they ran an article pointing out that Winburn is running for the State Senate. If he wins he will need to vacate his Council seat and it will be treated as an open seat in the 2015 election. His appointed replacement can't serve until the end of his full term. Likely contenders for a 2015 election include one or two supporters, which could impact favorably on an uptown extension grant if one wins. Any ideas on this one? Also, today they ran the story about Frameri, an eye ware firm that recently decided to locate to an address on Race Street, I do believe a section of Race that is on the route. Obviously it's good news when start up businesses pick OTR...so....streetcar-influenced decision anyone? Over the Rhine was already up and coming with or without the streetcar, it would be presumptuous to assume that all locational decisions are based on the streetcar, but still it would be good to get credit if/where credit is due. Any insights on this?

^^Yes, parking is crazy around Findlay Market. I avoid the market at certain times because I assume I won't be able to park. If I can get into the lot on busy days sometimes the machines that take your parking fee don't work and the security guard has to come over and help. Was part of the rationale for the streetcar so that you could park off-site, ie maybe downtown, or in the garage by Music Hall, or in KY where parking is plentiful by Newport on the Levee, and then ride up to Findlay Market? I believe so.

Glad you liked it, I sure did. Thanks for the heads up on Vox, I really didn't think GE was ever anti-streetcar. In fact, can't prove it...I know it's been debated on this forum before...but I still got a strong hunch that the streetcar entered into GE's decision to set up operations at the Banks.

^Yup, I was raised in Cleveland, those yellow PCC streetcars are the old "Shaker Rapid" cars, I used to ride those all the time when I was a kid. Greater Cleveland RTA replaced the PCC's with Breda LRV's in the early '80's. The Bredas have been around for 30+ years so presumably GCRTA must be looking for replacements, I would hope.

The vox.com thing above has General Electric's logo all over it. I'm not sure when or why GE got into streetcar-hating, in fact it just doesn't make sense. This video posted below here "Going Places" is from General Electric circa 1952 and praises the virtues of electric public transit. It is dead accurate and well worth watching, although the opening few minutes is kind of lame. It gets better toward the middle and end...about 3 minutes in it gets right to the point. Sit back, watch and enjoy. :clap: Lots of footage of PCC streetcars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3-RB6Phlg

^A few questions about the interesting concept of going to NKY: 1) Would the constitution require an interstate Compact? As you know it's a technicality in the US constitution that says congress must approve a collaboration between two states. 2) Could TANK get into the interstate streetcar as a supporter since in theory they might be able to run fewer buses clear across the river. They could terminate more routes in Covington and have people transfer. A single fare agreement could be worked out. This would provide TANK a lot of economy as far as reduced running times, labor costs, rolling stock requirements. 3) What is the ridership on the South Bank shuttle? What is the level of interstate ridership TANK is already getting on their interstate routes? Seems like this is an easily quantifiable baseline for ridership projections. Nobody could possibly argue "nobody will ride the streetcar to NKY" when they're looking at an existing market already using transit for interstate trips. My sense is that everybody knows an interstate streetcar could work, but there is some understandable hesitation about opening up interstate politics and coordination among multiple providers and governments. Seems like OKI could play a lead role in bringing supporters to the table.

Now that the Fairfield/Beavercreek thing is behind us I think we should revive this thread with posts about RTA's next big thing which is just around the corner. Things are going to get interesting very soon. Namely, a few years ago RTA management and Board reached a consensus that the electric system should be modernized...both infrastructure and rolling stock...as a means of stabilizing propulsion costs. A couple of years ago RTA started working low-key without a lot of publicity or fanfare to explore new trolleys and start some infrastructure upgrades. After months of technical glitches and federal bureaucratic delays, it now appears there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Specifically, this summer and fall RTA is supposed to start road testing prototypes of the next generation of electric trolley buses. Test subjects will involve a new type of series hybrid diesel electric bus, and a new generation of all-electric trolleybuses with high power batteries. The vehicles should be delivered within a few months; they are based on the Gillig BRT CNG bus model, but with roof CNG tanks removed and replaced with electric pick-ups for running under the overhead electric infrastructure. RTA wants to test the off-wire capability of these models so they can extend traditional trolley routes without expensive NIMBY-bait wire extensions. Meanwhile, the legacy/heritage trolleybus system is down to some 30 or so older Skoda/ETI units running on two routes. One is 3/4 on an east-west axis through downtown, the other is #8 on a southwest-northwest axis through downtown. Other former trolley lines (1,2,5,7) are in various states of rebuilding/construction and are being operated with diesel buses. More information here: http://www.daytontrolleys.net/

What's up with this? Today's Enquirer had a story about the "another" $1million start-up costs. These costs will be spread over three budget years. OK, but big deal!! Where were the cost-concious complainers a few months ago when it was announced that the delay while they "studied the problem" also cost roughly the same amount in added expenses. Hmmmm... :wtf:

I'm a big futbol (OK call it soccer if you want) fan, especially when it comes to the international games. One thing I noticed about soccer around the world, during the anthem ceremony at the start of the game, the players always bring their kids on to the field for the anthems. Seems to me kind of a "cute" (for lack of a better word) thing to do to add interest to a largely ignored and perfunctory ceremony. Why can't we bring the kids on the field here for baseball and American football? Haven't been to a Crew game for a few years, but I think we are doing this now at least sometimes... at least for soccer...so why not baseball and American football? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kcSmkH6QXg

And as I remember, and google street view seems to confirm, in Cincinnati it is normal for the gas light to be the only source of street lighting on the particular street. In other words, no mercury or sodium vapor lights at higher elevations above. I've been doing some research on this and it appears that Cincinnati is very unique in that I can only confirm two other US cities that have city-wide gaslight systems. One is Boston, the other is South Orange NJ. BTW, the mid-street islands for streetcars...I did some posting about this on the streetcar thread a while back. The islands are necessary so people can board/disembark trackside rather than from the curb. In Toronto where streetcars are everywhere most streets don't have the islands, and (not to denegrate streetcars of course) passengers getting struck by careless or uninformed motorists is a big problem. More about this at the TTC website. Where islands are/were used, they frequently get illuminated so cars don't strike them.

^Is that really a yellow street island gas light? Holy cow that is cool!! I lived in Cincinnati from 1972-1976 and I don't recall seeing anything like that. Maybe I saw them and just assumed they were electric. Anyway, your post above made me think of another question. What I know about gas is that it is often piped under the street at very high pressures, and normally must go through a reduction valve before it enters your house or a fixture like this. So where are the reduction valves?

I lived in Cincinnati in the 1970's and I remember part of the city's historic preservation agenda at the time was to preserve gas street lamps. I recall maybe there were a few thousand of them scattered around mostly in Hyde Park and Clifton I believe. At some point I think there was a special assessment to pay the added operating and maintenance costs of the gas light system. And I recall they burned all day long since it's obviously impractical to keep snuffing them and re-lighting them. Well, that was 40 years ago...I noticed today google street view still shows a lot of gas lamps in areas where I remember them. So, my question is...what is the current status of the gas lamp system? Are there still 1,000+of these fixtures in areas like Clifton and Hyde Park? Are are they still operable and well-maintained?

So, I believe Monday is the deadline for the next round of Federal grants? Are we submitting for uptown extension? I have a feeling if we were...it would be a done deal by now, given the tight timeline at this point.

I thought that too, but ya' know what I noticed...these new microbrewers seem to have more of a cooperative mindset rather than cut throat competition. Cincinnati microbrews are probably not in competition with Dayton's, and they have all mutually identified a hugely expanding market so it's like "we're all in this together...what can we all do in our mutual best interests?" And just to keep on topic, we can all do things like supporting the streetcar.

I lived on Ohio Ave. back in the 70's, so I understand all the geography of OTR, but I've been in Dayton now for quite a while so I'm not following the Cinti. politics that much any more. Anyway, I was just in Dayton's "Toxic Brew" microbrewery, and a guy from Rhinegeist came in. I think he was on-the-clock working, because he didn't really want to hang out or drink there, he was promoting his product. Anyway, when I started asking him about his location, parking, hours, menu etc. it became very apparent he was proud of their location on the streetcar...like it was one of his marketing talking points. So, just wondering...was Rhinegeist another locational / investment decision that was made at least partly on the basis of the streetcar? (Sorry if this has been posted about before...don't know how to go back and search through umpteen hundreds of past posts.)

^ OK, right. Now, consider...this kind of relates to the point I'm making two upthread. How are these millennium gen grads going to be able to visit their grandparents at Otterbein? When you graduate from college with a degree, and $70,000+ in student loans, and the only job you can find is part time paying $10. per hour...your budget doesn't leave room for a car and car payments (not to mention maintenance, insurance...). Somehow we've got to get rid of this myth that everybody has access to a car and we design everything around that assumption.