SWOH

East-West streetcar circulator down Central Pkwy, Liberty, and out to Union Terminal would solve it

This is fantastic. I'm pumped. This tournament is the only local sporting event I actually try to go to every year, it's so much fun. Very excited for the improvements.

My opinion - a new arena seems like a solution looking for a problem. The current arena is rough, no question, but it seems like Cincy does a decent job getting the music acts, etc. a city/metro its size should expect to get. It would be great to demolish it / redevelop the site, and a cap on TQL or Paul Brown stadium would be pretty sweet. Reason to have it - there's no viable 25000+ seat enclosed arena in the Cincy/Dayton area. Dayton does not even have an arena at all, aside from the Nutter Center at Wright State, and has not had any for ~20 years. Hara Arena was operating on its last leg right up until it closed, then the roof caved in a couple months after. So there is a case for it, but does Hamilton County have the stomach to take it? It might be smarter to let Kentucky or a suburban county like Butler or Warren field this one. It's so easy for an arena to be built badly, destroy neighborhoods, and take up valuable urban real estate. With how heavily Republican / anti-urban our government is nowadays, might be best to leave what will end up becoming a car-centric megaproject to the suburbs.

Sounds fun! I might be able to make the evening work. Definitely been needing to make it over to Columbus to hang out, and not just for my job lol

^That's big news! Am curious about the justification though. I'm showing my bias, but would love to see the convention center modernization plan morph into a casino conversion plan, where the convention center moves away and becomes a casino. Large box uses do not make much sense in downtowns for the most part, but the damage is already done. A casino would at least take the box format and drive more revenue into the city.

Glad to see talk about OnMain happening again. With all of the other development that has happened recently around downtown Dayton, the glacial speed this is moving forward at hasn't seemed to be a concern for much of anyone in the area. Sure, the fairgrounds are an eyesore now, but not much more of an eyesore than they were when they were fairgrounds IMO. So it seems people are continuing to ignore the site, just like they have for many decades before. I don't know if there will be enough interest or justification for an urban market, like a small format Meijer (Bridge Street Market) or a small format Kroger to replace Wayne Ave. Enticing one of those retailers historically seemed to be a big incentive this getting built, but figured the combo of UD + Premier would be enough to get it done. Kind of surprised there hasn't even been much talk about it for, what, close to 3 years? That's a long time, even with COVID making things weird at the start of that timeline.

Wow, demolishing that courthouse is absolutely criminal. Horrible shame. Call me crazy, but with Noblesville/Fishers growing as fast as they have been, ~20 minutes down the road from Anderson, it seems like it'll come back. But it's going to be a herculean effort to make that comeback happen. I was truly surprised by it. Still felt comfortable, but definitely got more Trotwood / west Dayton vibes than even the Lima vibes I was expecting. Maybe it's the fact that it's also basically a food desert in large parts, and they opened a GFS grocery store there just like they did in Trotwood, I'm not sure.

Nice pictures! Must have been a town that got swallowed by Chicagoland rather than a streetcar suburb or something that built a dense downtown.

@Ucgrad2015 good question. I think there are a variety of factors at play: 1. Location. Sure, it's a growing area, but the main demographic for 3-story townhouses (20-30ish year old working professionals, single or without kids) don't want to live in a retirement community in an exurb. I think Norton Commons succeeded in large part because it's in lily-white suburbia BUT also only a 15-minute drive to downtown Louisville and all it offers. Union Village is 30 minutes from downtown Dayton, 35 minutes from downtown Cincinnati with no traffic... there's comparable product a lot closer to places younger professionals would actually want to live, given the cost. 2. Because of this, the two demographics left that want to buy here are families with kids, and retirees. Families with kids are going to be a tougher sell because they are used to suburbia, and the spot is literally surrounded by suburban housing product. If I had kids, I think raising them in a walkable community where they could go to a park in the community to play with their friends and work a job they could bike or walk to safely would be an incredibly valuable experience for the kid to have, but we are in Republican Ohio where everyone is taught to fear their own shadow so I digress. The stairs are a deal breaker for a lot of retirees out there. 3. Typically developers build at a lower price point, and offer deals on the first houses in a community, because they know the buyers are shouldering the risk of moving into the community not knowing whether it will be fully built out, what kinds of future housing is coming, years of dealing with construction traffic and noise baked in, etc. I don't think the developers did that in Union Village. Right now the detached homes are listed at 700k+ and are all about 3,000 square feet. There are plenty of homes out there in the $550-600k range that are new or built within the past couple years.

@IAGuy39 You'd think, but homes have been moving surprisingly slow in Union Village. A good chunk of the original build homes in Union Village are still for sale 3-4 years after they were built, and there's not alot of rumblings about new phases coming in. IDK whether to be disappointed or happy. It's suburban development, but it was suburban development in the right direction... I was hoping it would really take off, like Norton Commons outside Louisville, but it's not.

You’re right, I didn’t even think about that lol. Shows what they really care about…

Glad the church and parish building are getting re-used and not torn down!

One of the more bleak mid-sized Indiana towns, but there are some spots that are hopeful. It's an old GM town. The automaker pulled out around 1992, closing all of its plants. There are still some GM remnants in town, but mostly just grass fields and empty promises of industrial parks to be built stand where GM used to be. NPR reported GM employed over 25,000 people in Anderson at 20 different plants at its height. The auto industry is a cruel mistress, and it's clear that Anderson is still picking up the pieces to some extent. Nowadays, it's home to some great underutilized historic buildings a stone's throw from the suburban building boom craze going on in Noblesville and Fishers. It's pretty striking to go from one to the other, especially heading out along SR 109 to see the old Anderson Mound Mall commercial corridor on the way out. Makes me wonder when, not if, this town will make a big comeback. Nobody build buildings this high of quality anymore, it's a gold mine for somebody with the right vision and capital to make redevelopment happen. Info on GM in Anderson: https://www.npr.org/2009/07/15/106655302/skeletons-of-the-auto-industry-linger-across-u-s The "Art Alley". I was on a time crunch, apologies for the lack of pictures of said artwork. All of it is on the building on the LH side Need more parking? I doubt it. But in case you want it, you won't be fighting for a spot in here. Very curious what this used to be. Now it's one of the most regal insurance agencies in the USA. Not that the insurance agency occupying it cares. Believe it or not, this is only one of two 10+ story tall buildings in this town of 55,000 residents: Ornate church? Sure. Crazy to see what society used to build, right next to a cheap-o new build office building ruining the view a bit. Ferda boys, I guess? Kinda forgot how much Indiana loves their limestone. This is a great reminder. Gorgeous church. Out-of-place little cottage right in the heart of downtown. Wonder what its history might be? In the foreground is the bus station / library building. An ill-placed parking lot taking up what could be an awesome town square with an amphitheater. Left side is the bus station, right side is the library. This is a new build, the library is not open yet. It's the only new building, from what I could tell, in at least a 5-block radius. This is probably the cool people's entrance to the FOE. Squares go in the front. A little bit of Anderson grit A gorgeous building that I'm thankful did not get cladded. Gives 1950s vibes... greasers, bops on the jukebox, muscle cars parked along the street. Maybe it's the ice cream parlor style awning that's doing it for me. Who the f*** puts a GARAGE DOOR facing MAIN STREET literally in the center of town? Apparently these people, that's who. Guns, ammo, an unfortunate self reflection, and of course the garage door in the reflection... maybe the gun store would have done better if they didn't paint their building blue. First time I've seen a motivational statement on a street sign. IDK how to feel about it. Probably doesn't matter since no one is downtown to pay attention to it anyways. The one section of a block taht gives some hope this could be a pretty mid-sized town. Faces a nice little park. IDK how this was dedicated in 2002, would anybody familiar with the city help me understand? Either way, they did a decent job. This sign makes the Daytonian in me happy Again, so much potential here. Also, interesting use of Meridian Street as a name. Is Anderson's original city plan inspired by Indianapolis? Sculptures in a small park, historic church, an American flag. Neat little spot in the center of town. I'm finding it hard to believe this town was founded this late... 1865. Crazy. The historic theater in town. Not going to lie, I like it. This place is trying. Looks like it could be fun. Definitely a mom & pop. Right on Main St, next to the closed gun store that was painted blue. Hope they do well, downtown Anderson in 2024 would be a harsh place to try and make it. I would have bought something here myself but they were closed when I was in town for this quick trip.

This one is a huge bummer for me, I loved this movie theater as a kid... Middletown's only movie theater closing MIDDLETOWN — Middletown’s only theater is closing at the end of the week, according to a Facebook post. Cinema 10 Middletown, 3479 Dixie Highway, is closing permanently on Thursday.

I live ~5 minutes from the Dayton mall store and cringe thinking about its future. Hoping for the best, but not expecting it. At least Dayton Mall is getting a megachurch where the Sears used to be, tearing up its iconic mid-century modern architecture for a generic black box with fake wood and tacky orange accents plastered on the outside, wooo.... /s. At least it's foot traffic? I think @646empire might be on to something though. Reading the press release, it sounds like some of their stores are going to get repurposed into Bloomingdale's, Blue Mercury, etc. and in some spots they are going to pair down their concept maybe just to a Backstage. I assume they are still working through the details of what will happen with the stores in Class A malls vs the ones in Class B malls vs. Class C malls. Kenwood is the only Class A mall in the Cin-Day region, with Beavercreek's mall as the only high "B", so I could see a case for a conversion of Kenwood's store into a Bloomingdale's to go toe-to-toe with Nordstrom under the new strategy. Or maybe they will leave it as a Macy's and try to build Macy's into a more premium brand, idk. The smaller store strategy is particularly interesting to me... in the case of, say, Dayton mall, where they probably get reliable and consistent sales that aren't enough to sustain a ~240,000 sq. ft. store, do they shutter the store altogether, shrink the store footprint down to only leave, say, furniture & Backstage, or do they open a furniture store and backstage store near the mall while closing the mall store?

^Trust me, it’s not a take I like saying, but from what I can tell it’s reality. Various college rankings out there shouldn’t really affect the prestige of a university, but they do, and it’s been a long while since Miami ranked #75 or greater out of the national research universities. It’s even been a while since they haven considered better than University of Dayton academically, and it’s to the point where the University of Cincinnati is almost seen as more prestigious (not that any of those are not great schools, they are all excellent, but it’s a different conversation than before). Ohio State seems to now get the cream of the crop without much dispute, while ~15 years ago the two were seen as fairly equitable. So I think it’s a smart pivot, and I definitely think it’s a pivot. Butler Tech has wanted as much Miami engagement as possible for as long as I can remember. I’m glad they are getting it now. I also see a great opportunity for Miami to morph into a solid technical university. Which is something it has never been with its fairly new engineering school (aside from the two legacy degrees) and brand new Oxford based nursing school (previously it was regionals only). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NHL in Cincy is such a bad idea. Columbus already has the Blue Jackets, and I could be wrong but find it hard to believe there's a case for Hell is Real: Hockey edition. There's little to no youth hockey culture around here, few ice rinks, little interest... let Columbus have a team in peace, and support them to keep it strong and in Ohio. No reason to bring a fourth pro team into town if we straight up cannot support it. We are fortunate we have the teams we do and the support base for those teams that they enjoy. Adding NHL would just divide that pool more, it overlaps a lot with the end of NFL season and the start of MLB season. And since a pro hockey team, nor a pro NBA team is going to show up here, why does Cincy need a large arena that's not directly tied to the convention center again? It's a completely frivolous exercise. At the expense, likely, of Cincinnati or Hamilton County taxpayers. At least if an arena was combined with the convention center, or even the casino, it would make some sense as a supplemental draw to the supporting venue for larger conventions, pro wrestling fights and Esports at the casino, etc.

Miami U buying the Vora Tech park is an interesting move in Miami's overall strategy. They spent so many years building up an image of being a "private Ivy", which at least when I was going there the school had about 1/3 of its student from out-of-state, and around 10% of them being international, largely from China. With China's current struggling economic conditions and COVID, they had to pivot back pretty quick from 2020 to a nearly 100% acceptance rate and rely a lot more on bringing in lower-paying in-state students. They have a lot of debt tied up in their 20+ years of nonstop building, tearing down stuff, etc. so it seems like buying this is an acknowledgement that the old normal of high dollar international and out of state students footing the bill might be a thing of the past. As an Alum, I'm not really in love with the idea of them morphing into a more regional directional name style state university instead of a nationally known powerhouse like they once were, but at the same time I'm not surprised and hope they handle the downgrade well.

It's a shame, but yeah... there's no way this is getting off the ground in this climate. They probably figured the capital budgets at like 3-4% interest rates on debt, and it's probably ballooned to 8-10% for them now. So it'll just decay more. There have been some other good developments nearby (Costco backfilled by a food manufacturer, BidFTA taking up the At Home space, Best Buy reopening their store as an outlet, U-Haul taking over the old Walmart), so good things are happening in the outlying strip malls at least. It's a gorgeous mall, hated to see it be demolished anyways. Hopefully somebody can figure out a way to re-use it as-is

^I'm sure they could. Honestly not sure why the county hasn't done that yet, seems like it would save a lot of maintenance costs. Those spaces have been vacant for a long, long time... I don't even remember them being filled.

^Nice, glad B&N is opening some stores. I miss the Dayton Mall one, wish they would bring it back like they said they were planning to do when it closed. Haven't made it over to Kenwood yet, but hoping to get there sometime this holiday season.

I know the fountain seems minor, but it'll be a huge improvement to that plaza. It's a neat spot, well done for it's time but it's not hard to tell it hasn't really been touched since the 1980s. It doesn't solve the problem of the vacant underground shops, which could be really cool, but at least it adds a nice focal point for the food trucks that show up there.

Hoping they go for the substation move. This is basically a vanity project for Berding & Co, at least that's how I see it since we have no team for this arena and no formal purpose for it. Since it's a vanity move, might as well remove the ugliest thing in the neighborhood now, the substation. As for a spot to put it, there's a bunch of vacant and underutilized land next to the White Castle at 8th & Lynn.

Not disagreeing with anything you’re saying at all, but the thought of “railroad money” is going to be a dangerous one moving forward. Cincinnati taxpayers should make sure they are getting their full moneys worth for prime sites like the police station, and not just hand them over to developers because there’s extra money in the till from the railroad sale. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it happens, it’ll be at the CET site, let’s be real. Otherwise they wouldn’t be talking about it, as there is not really any immediate need for an arena at all. My favorite site is the casino site. It is the only one that makes sense, aside from possibly being a supplement to the convention center to make it bigger. Arenas are a poor use of urban land for the most part, but they are decent at driving pedestrian traffic into cities to support bars & restaurants. At the casino site, it’s still about as walkable to Pendleton as TQL Stadium is to OTR. I can also see it making a lot more sense to have an arena tied into a casino for UFC fights, for instance, singular big-draw events we don’t have here but would make sense to do. Getting an NHL team is fantasy at this point because of the Blue Jackets, and let’s be real there is not much of a hockey culture here. I still think it’s dumb to build this arena, but it is what it is at this point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk