SWOH

Site plan looks decent.... except for the wall of parking blocking the stadium from the actual West End neighborhood where it is located. The way this site is set up, the stadium will feel like it is in OTR despite the fact it is physically in West End. But it's a minor flaw and this is an early preliminary plan, hopefully that parking will end up underground and infill will be built facing John St. Also, I 100% agree with Robuu that it'd be awesome if they could save the buildings on Central (or the facades at least). In particular saving the blue and white bldg. that appears to have been a movie theater in the past would be amazing, they don't build anything that ornate anymore.

Can confirm. It's my 90-year old grandma's favorite store, she will be devastated. I'm not convinced this is the nail in the coffin for E-B / Bon-Ton. Washington Prime Group (formerly Glimcher) and the other mall owners on the original bid are still financially OK and would be taking a big risk by letting these anchor their anchor stores, each in a different mall, go under. Even if they buy out the rights to Bon Ton and operate it at a loss it's probably smarter for them to do that than take the financial hit on their leases of devaluing their malls without that anchor.... unless they have the money to spend to demolish and repurpose all of the old Bon Ton stores. Sears is an interesting and very different case because they own most all of their own stores, with the exception of their newer locations in places like The Mall at Fairfield Commons, Polaris Fashion Place, etc. which they lease. Even Toys-R-Us had an offer submitted to purchase it by the billionaire majority owner of Bratz and Hasbro... it failed but the circumstances are different, toy makers won't be short sales channels but mall owners are short potential anchor stores. IMO Washington Prime and the other mall owners would be fools to let this slip through.... and the liquidators who are the top bidders know this is the case. They will end up getting top dollar for these stores IMO unless the mall owners are willing to throw in the towel and go bankrupt now.

What will it take for Precourt to sell and/or give in to keeping the Crew in Columbus in a stadium downtown?

Wilson513, So you're saying out of the 8 people you relocated, 6 stayed in the neighborhood?

I'm surprised I'm saying this but there's a lot of points where I agree 100%, especially the bolded sentences. I don't agree with the italicized. I don't live there but I've been to OTR enough to know it has basically turned its corner in all areas (certainly all areas south of Liberty St.) and is one of the nicest parts of the city now. The OTR to which you are referring is circa 2001 (maybe even as late as 2010) but not the OTR of today. I imagine that's reason #1 why people are frustrated with you on this thread. Second, I should have explained my background better than I did before. If I spent all of my time in the bubble where I live I'd agree with you, but... I probably should have pointed out earlier that I spend most of my hours that I'm awake during the week in Trotwood, one of Dayton's worst off suburbs, at work. Last week the SWAT team was called in because of a standoff down the street, and last year the deli owner a block away was shot in the stomach by a robber who wanted $100. Our company, which is a family owned small business, had to get a high grade security system, bars on all the windows, and some of the most secure door locks on the market that we then had to cover with fabricated steel protective weldments to prevent break-ins for our copper. I also grew up in a predominantly Appalachian neighborhood three miles south of AK Steel in Middletown. Hillbilly Elegy could have been written about how my friends and classmates grew up. To be honest, I probably have seen or met JD Vance before... working at the Dillman's on Roosevelt when I was a kid, or at the fast food restaurants on Briel. My parents struggled with money a lot before they had me, and they were very responsible to wait until they were financially sound before trying for kids. Once they did, they were able to give me an amazing life. Through some of their actions I can see the desperation of people who used to be poor while through their other actions I see the seasoned reasoning of someone with enough money to plan what they do with it. So I've seen both sides, I've lived both sides. This is why I'm convinced concentrations of poverty does no one any good. I'm not saying every place should be the same (that's certainly not the case), but maybe the violence and chaos wouldn't exist if the people doing it aren't living right in the same spot. It'd make it a lot harder for them to get together and organize it. Maybe if people have the money and the power to choose where they actually want to live (or at least have the ability to choose between multiple different good options) there would be less crime and fewer problems. I think OTR proves that is the case. The neighborhood has gentrified, yes, but there are provisions for affordable housing, which people who lived in the neighborhood in 2001 have taken advantage of and use. The businesses and new residents of OTR do a lot of good for the people who are less fortunate in the community there now. Also these businesses are hiring residents, helping them climb their way out of poverty. So I agree 100% with the parts of your comment I bolded. You are right the poor need a way into the society the rest of us live in. Why not invite them in now?

^I mean I think it's only fair that you share where you live too.... but just because you are concerned, I live at Austin Landing in an apartment, exit 41 off I-75. The complex where I live is 100% market rate, and rents start right about $900/mo. I live here because of its central location, because I have a friend or two that lives in the complex, because my previous apt complex which I liked a lot was managed by the same property management company, and because of its walkability/community amenities. I would welcome the incusion of subsidized housing in my building. In the meantime, if people from OTR want to move here they are more than welcome to it. There's plenty of below market rate rentals up and down 741 very close to where I live. In the future I am planning to buy a house in a walkable neighborhood, with any luck it will happen within the next 2-3 years. Because of the fact I want to keep my mortgage to 10 years and do at least a 25% down payment, my house will likely cost $150k or less. If you cannot tell I'm very risk-averse in my investment strategy. A place like the neighborhood where BigDipper 80 lives is at the top of my list. His neighborhood is a great mix of people of all different types of income and race. I can guarantee wherever I plan to move will have Section 8 housing within a mile, probably closer, just like his neighborhood and probably yours too. But Matthew67, you still did not address the fact that you are promoting a skewed playing field in favor of those that are born in a better environment. That's the crux of the issue. Have you ever considered the fact that a lot of crimes are not the result of desire but of desperation, addiction, and circumstance? Why not improve the odds to make sure all people have the opportunity to afford rent payments, food and necessary medical care? Why support the continued economic suppression? I dare you to answer.

I'd like to point out that right now there are a lot more impoverished areas within Butler County than you'd think. New Miami, Excello, southeast Hamilton, the apts along Mulhauser.... when "street people" is mentioned I assume that is code for poor people, which are everywhere. Not just in select neighborhoods within the core city. In the case of Cincinnati, it's especially true since the city is basically a collection of villages separated by large hills, especially in the western part (the east is a bit more cohesive IMO). But it's true in Dayton too, or Columbus, or any other large city, and always has been. Rich people sometimes choose to live in poor neighborhoods Poor people sometimes scrape enough together to live in the worst parts of rich neighborhoods (like the people in Camp Dennison in Indian Hills, for instance) This antequated belief that we can put a magical lasso around all the poor people and keep them in a small urban box is racist at best and totalitarian at worst. If our nation really is the "Land of the Free" why do people continue to predisposition the belief that those who are poor cannot have access to the same resources as the wealthy? That doesn't sound like freedom to me, it sounds like suppression, which is being advocated on this thread under the guise of safety. I think that's the belief we are seeing a lot on this thread. To those that believe it, grow up.

Go Raiders! Wright State normally has a solid basketball team, glad it's getting some national recognition this year around the water coolers.

And I don't understand the West End's hardball strategy towards FC Cincinnati. Generally stadiums aren't good citizens of their neighborhoods, they destroy their neighborhoods with seas of parking and largely non-functional space, but in this case it seemed like FC Cincy would have gone to great lengths to integrate into the community and be a good citizen, creating a space that would be used on a daily basis by residents and FC fans alike. But instead we have ~20 pages of discussion on exactly how some community leaders there shouted them out with claims of Gentrification, which may be valid, but still... at least both sides could have come to the table and talked it over. FC was willing, the key shouters were not. Sometimes I like to forget how Cincy works and then crap like this reminds me....

This risks taking the thread off topic, but... It's reall interesting how this massive investment in church buildings 100+ years ago resulted in the great dames of churches we see in this thread, while today's wealthy churches end up being monstrosities like this:

Well, according to Amanda Seitz's twitter, CPS did reject the offer and FCC passed on the purchase of property in the West End. So... Newport? Please for the love of all that is good in professional soccer (which the Crew has shown us isn't much, but still...) Let it be NEWPORT! Also, Hofbrauhaus after the FC games would be on point, and hopefully demand for the bars and restaurants up Monmouth would grow, it's a nice street.

Let me get this straight... Cranley poaches Black form Baltimore for only two real reasons... 1. Fire popular (and well performing) police chief Jeffery Blackwell https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/cincinnati-police-reform/393797/ 2. Kill the streetcar. Which from gross mismanagement by the Mayor's office seems to be happening with some success. The only thing that makes sense is that Black got tired of being Cranley's yes man. He should have known better when he signed up for the job. I wish they'd both leave.

^The architecture of those churches is really amazing. And that Seminary complex (just south of Lima) is something you have to see in person to really appreciate... I think what made it happen was the quality of the farmland. The soil is good and fertile, so it's easy to grow crops that do well there. The farmers grew more, were able to sell more, and became wealthier because of it. These were not poor appalachian tobacco farmers, far from it.

^Right? They could build a mixed-use apt building where the old Don Pablo's is and we'd be set for life lol (jk) (tbh there is a nice bike trail there tho...)

I'm excited. Honest to god I was very excited when the Logan's Roadhouse closed because it was a laughably horrible restaurant. Now it's being replaced with one of the better Chicago pizza chains? Heck yes!! (kinda feel like a bad urbanist being this excited about a pizza chain moving to suburbia tho)

The one (and as I far as I know, only) good thing Mike DeWine has ever done for the state of Ohio..... #savethecrew

Looking forward to seeing the blue clock up in the sky again!

^Positive news for sure, thanks for sharing! I caught M-V dropping their involvement in the residential portion in passing last week, haven't had a great chance to follow all of this so good to see this posted and that there's hope!

Agreed. If only it was more temperate here in Ohio.... it's hard to be a year round tourist destination with four seasons. ColDayMan, excellent set! Hard to look at these photos without being astonished by how well Lexington is doing (UK + bluegrass country does wonders for the downtown economy), amazed by what places like Stubenville were, and hopeful looking at places like Georgetown OH.

^Seems like it'd be worth considering building the stadium by a pre-existing county-owned parking garage... if they are still considering West End, which from recent talks they appear to be, does anyone know if the current Freestore Foodbank site directly south of Music Hall's parking garage is in play? EDIT - I didn't realize directly to the south were a bunch of electric transformers. From a quick view of the aerial it looked relatively clear all the way down to Court St.

I put this on City-Data too, but given the fact that the forumers there aren't as... ~enlightened~ as UO'ers I figured I'd re-post to get some thoughts: ---- I'm looking forward to this development. I'm going against the grain here for sure, but I think Woodward Development hit the nail on the head by seeing the need for more Class A office space downtown. A lot of the suburban office parks are aging, workspaces are changing, and now is the time to poach offices from the suburbs of our city or others to move downtown. So much of the office space is Class B/C and upgrades would require significant time & money investments that I think those willing to make the renovations and conversions will be rewarded with great tenants for years to come. That being said, still keeping my fingers crossed for Grant Denau being turned into fabulous mid-century modern styled Condos.

^Nice. Brunch at Wheat Penny sounds like a good idea for them to do, especially since they can serve alcohol with it now

Awesome pictures!

^True. Honestly with the way retail is going anymore, it might not be that long until a sizable chunk of it (or all of it) becomes a prime redevelopment opportunity.

^Nice, but concerning rendering... that's no street interaction + there's a ton of light pollution on the West End with no barrier, which IMO would kill the vibe of the neighborhood. It'd be nice to see a sunken stadium. Here's a new article from CityLab on the expansion process: https://www.citylab.com/design/2017/12/are-soccer-arenas-the-new-football-stadiums/547598/?utm_source=SFFB It nicely ties in the Crew drama too.