SWOH

I have a feeling this proposal is going nowhere, but I could be wrong. If there is one thing most suburban Daytonians despise it is the city of Dayton, however inept and unjustified that position may be. I also feel like I don't know enough about this proposal to feel one way or the other yet - a lot of open ends. I think jjakucyk has a good point though - this would only be a consolidation of the "bad" areas. IMO right now Dayton within city limits is doing better than many of the inner ring municipalities outside of it like Harrison Twp, Trotwood, and Riverside, and a merger would not really be in the best interest of the city. With a lot of the wealth in Greene Co., this might just accelerate the flow of it to over there, and hurt any revitalization that may happen in the inner ring and erode the stability of places like Englewood and West Carrollton. However, if school districts don't change then I do not see why most people would have strong feelings one way or the other. Most people in Washington Twp and even deep into Greene Co around Alpha are used to writing "Dayton, OH" in their addresses rather than Centerville and Beavercreek respectively (despite the fact that nothing in Greene Co. would change). And they are used to county services. IMO this just rebrands Montgomery Co. as Dayton, and dissolves Dayton city government, but there's a lot of nuances I don't understand. Definitely looking for more info as time goes on with this.

taestell[/member] Good point. Those buildings are interchangeable, almost. But IMO that's not a bad thing, makes it easy to re-brand them as whatever when something goes out of business. So we don't end up with this anymore: http://usedtobeapizzahut.blogspot.com/ Also, I will say that visually those buildings are a substantial improvement over current fast food outlets, at least from the exterior. But that Arby's parking lot pictured above needs help.

Good. Cranley is an ass wipe. It's important to keep pressure on him to get him out of office.

Don't forget about Southgate House revival too. Sounds like publicly subsidized competition for private enterprise to me. The only place it would make sense is "Lot 23" and I don't know if it would fit there. http://www.urbancincy.com/2015/05/project-officials-ready-to-move-forward-with-next-phase-of-the-banks/ Another idea straight from Cranley... He sure does shoot from the hip huh? Agreed that taking developable land for this concept would be a bad idea, but... Can the land between the Freedom Center and the river be used for this venue, with a temporary stage continually set up/taken down on Freedom Way right in front of the center? So the concert area would be in the lawn right next to Yard House. Spillover could go into the street and Robeling Bridge could be closed to vehicle traffic on those days with bikeway/walking path open during concert time.

^Great news, it's the perfect use for that spot. I suspect student housing for Sinclair might end up in the apartment mix, especially since the tower is caddy-corner from the DDN / Student Suites site.

Also - Hamilton/Fairfield has a sizable Hispanic population. Lots of little markets and subtleties of their culture scattered throughout eastside Hamilton especially.... check out this place: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.389854,-84.5531634,3a,75y,90.67h,80t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4994nD7zApttnufE-N6aMw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D4994nD7zApttnufE-N6aMw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D91.955238%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!6m1!1e1 Or here. The orange cart in the streetview is a taco stand, open for lunch: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3887533,-84.5590874,3a,75y,230.56h,82.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3jouazafCt2arofPk5o_fw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 Also - BigDipper90 - amazing shots! You have a great eye for photography.

The question has to be why the "streetcar suburbs" did not prevail over the freeway suburbs? Government. The streetcar suburbs were generally healthy and viable before the government decided that it was going to spend breathtaking amounts of money imitating the Autobahn and opening up thousands of miniature Oklahoma Land Rushes in what were until then far-flung boondocks. Basically. I think the interstates would have been ok if they would have terminated at the edges of cities as they were originally intended to do. The system originally proposed by Eisenhower never led into the cities and cut up the neighborhoods that already existed.

Uh, ok... Nothing to do with Cleveland I was thinking it might be a sign they will officially pull the trigger on the Cleveland store soon and start work.

Just as an FYI.... Indianapolis will be getting an IKEA store: http://www.wthr.com/story/30477305/ikea-to-announce-plans-for-fishers-store-on-tuesday Or at least their plans are as far along as the ones for the Brooklyn site, although they did officially announce the store on Twitter.

From what I understand, a bike trail and light rail together are possible, but the proposal put out by Cranley earlier this year would design the bike trail in such a way that light rail could not be put on the line. taestell[/member] - glad to hear that's the way it was viewed. IMO this looked like a slush fund with only one purpose - block rail.

I agree, but it's a great way to spin the issue and push for the Wasson Corridor if this levy does fail.

Looks like this might fail... 18% reporting, 58% for NO. If this does fail, we need to start pushing hard for the Wasson Way light rail corridor. The only purpose of this levy is to do the Wasson Way bike trail and kill the future of light rail here, and its failure makes a great case that Cincinnatians want light rail.

edale[/member] Congrats, you got me, I have never lived in an urban neighborhood. But your question and subsequent statements miss the point. The days when we wear being a resident of some ghetto as some idiosyncratic point of pride should be done. We need to grow up and start helping the unfortunate people who are thrown into these horrible substandard living situations, and gentrification helps. We can, have, and need to continue to figure out ways to build up the people that live in ghettos so they can get ahead and get out. Blindly excusing crime is almost as bad as just fleeing like the neurotic suburbanites because it perpetuates a notion that we are too blind and too dumb to acknowledge the real issues. If you want my parents opinion of gentrification, look to the final statement of that last sentence. So sure, attack me for not living in a rebounding neighborhood and not turning around a ghetto, that's fine and honestly IMO acceptable. But you ignore the fact that over 90% of people don't have the interest or the ability to move willingly into a ghetto and do a full scale renovation and deal with the crime unless they are financially forced to be there. Safety is at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy of needs for a reason - it is the most basic thing people need besides shelter to feel safe, happy, and able to do well. So my point is that OTR needs to focus even more on reducing crime and enforcing the existing laws to make it a safe, enjoyable neighborhood for all. And this is especially important because we still need to work hard every day to prove to people that OTR and urban neighborhoods are worth fighting for. We can't face regression, especially not this early in the game, back to endless suburbanization. So yeah, if that post doesn't prove I'm a liberal I don't know what will. I guess I could send y'all a pic of my Obama poster....

From what I understand as a native of the area, this is basically it.

You're right. I'll lump myself in with TroyEros[/member] , although I would argue we both have a good grasp of the issues in OTR and other urban environments or else we surely wouldn't have found our way to this website. The issue lies with our families. He was with his parents, I was with mine, when the events we discussed happened. It's one thing to know how to navigate an urban environment yourself as a 20-yr old, or even with a group of young friends or with a gf/bf/whatever, but bringing bumbling, car oriented suburban Boomer parents into the mix makes it more challenging. Especially when you know your parents don't have a ton of strength to at least push past someone or outright ignore them if need be. And these people have a lot of millennial kids on a tight leash, financially, emotionally (think of Fred Sanford from Sanford and Son if you want my parents' reaction to anytime I say "I am going to move downtown after college" to give you an idea), or otherwise. I want this, more than anything, but really how am I going to not give my parents a heart attack? One simple way is to hope the city gets more cleaned up. So in a sense we should stop ignoring what the suburbanites shout, even if they are misguided and sometimes a lot more bigoted and naive then they want to admit. OTR is absolutely at the pinnacle of "well-revitalized neighborhoods". It is not only a model for Cincinnati, but it is a model for then entire rust belt and possibly the nation. I realize it will be diverse, and I want it to stay that way, but the blatant law breaking has to stop if we are ever going to convince all the people that doing this is worth it. We all know gentrification is worth it. We all know if it is done well it can make everyone involved a lot better off and provide countless opportunities for people who already live in these neighborhoods to get ahead and live a better life. But we have to do it so good even the skeptics who hate cities and hate walking and hate people will see the value in it. OTR is close, but it's not there. And that's what's frustrating to me, especially when I see places like German Village in Columbus or downtown Indianapolis & Chicago pull it off so well and so flawlessly. I had my parents willing to try new urban experiences for 8 years after we went to Chicago, and this most recent trip to OTR unfortunately set all of their neuroticism back in place. The same has to be true for other suburban people, the ones that are slowly being wooed to re-evaluate their cities after positive experiences in other downtowns, other urban neighborhoods, heck even places like the freaking Easton Town Center or The Greene sometimes is enough to convince these people. OTR has to be good not just for itself but for all of the rust belt. People can't keeping seeing the suburbs as a viable alternative, and any events like the ones people experience everyday in OTR set the movement back that much farther to get these people to at least not "hate" urban settings.

Ok whatever forget the dress code. It was a bad idea. But look their behavior is inexcusable. Whats your solution?

Last time I checked, drinking 40s in the side walk in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday is against the law. So is doing acid and wandering around the street. And so is menacing. Look, a real urban neighborhood we should aspire to have is a place where everyone can come and enjoy what's there. Would you really want to walk your 4-yr old daughter past the guys on that corner? I don't understand why I having to argue with you guys. It's a simple concept, a revitalized neighborhood is a safe neighborhood where at a bare minimum the law breaking is just as invisible as it is in, say, Springdale by Tri-County Mall.

Sure, that's fine. But these people need to either shape up or ship out. Simple as that. Too many people have worked far too much to preserve the great heritage of OTR just to p*ss it all away to slugs who don't work and are drugged out. They need to either help the effort and help make OTR a great place for everyone, not just the red light patrons, or leave.

I'm a liberal, thanks. But there is a difference between being a booster and ignoring a real issue. I've never had issues like the ones I've had in Cincinnati in other cities. Cleveland, Dayton, Toledo, Indianapolis, Louisville, Chicago, Toronto, Philadelphia, Miami.... never had the sheer number of concentrated issues I've had in Cincinnati. Don't get me wrong, I like Cincinnati. It has nothing to do with "bashing OTR" - trust me, I have bigger fish to fry. But what does concern me is the sheer negligence of these real issues. The conservatism, if you want to talk about that, has killed the resources these people have to get help and straighten out their lives. But in turn we need to acknowledge that there is a problem with the high rate of homelessness, etc. in order to fix it. So far you all have belittled me. I'm disappointed in this community. I thought we were better than that, thanks for the insight otherwise....

^Dress right, act right. Dress for success. Etc. One issue I had was taking my parents to the neighborhood was with a ~16 yr old girl wearing a white shirt and no bra. Look, somebody has to teach her to not dress like that. Period. EDIT - adding to that, the guy wearing rags who was on acid throwing dollar bills at us couldn't meet that code. Gives the police a great reason to pick him up, take him in, charge him appropriately and then send him on to social services to get help and beat the addiction. Same with the people that had no jobs drinking 40s during the day in the street. Put them to work, or at least make them drink the 40s privately where they don't disrupt families and the others who are actually supporting the revitalization of the neighborhood.

I've had the exact same thing happen to me. Not to that extent, but even south of Liberty there are places that need work. Not on the buildings, but on the people. No one should consider what that guy did to be excusable. It's despicable. No one should consider it acceptable for 10-20 people to be congregated on the sidewalk drinking 40s staring people down on a weekday afternoon, or throwing dollars at them while on acid trips, and so on. It's ridiculous. These people need to shape up. Simple as that. And they are not all, by any stretch of the imagination, just of one race, as many insinuate generally. So really everyone should be on board. I would not be opposed to a public dress code of sorts. Does any thing like that exist in other cities?

Thanks for the advice you guys! Right now I'm most heavily weighing the Canal area, and the more I look the more I think I can go with a nice apt. there around my budget. I'll look into the other options too, especially if the 1-2 complexes at the canal I like most don't work out.

^Thanks for the advice! I would do Broad Ripple, but I'll be working about 45 minutes south of downtown. So basically my options are downtown and downtown haha. Plus, being within walking distance of IUPUI is a must assuming I can start graduate school there soon.

Hey UOers, Figured you'd be a good crowd to ask, even though you guys are more Ohio-focused. ____________________________________________________________________________ I'll be moving to Indiana for my first job out of college, and I'm looking to move to downtown Indy. I will know virtually no one in Indianapolis, so I'm looking for more "social" apartment complexes. As far as budget/requirements/etc. goes: I'll be looking to spend about $1000/mo, can go more if needed but would rather not. I like to bike, probably will try to run along the Canal and in town, and would like to join some sort of gym. I'd like a place where I can easily hang out with friends on weekends, whether it be going to Colts/Pacers games downtown, heading over to grab a few drinks and some food on Mass Ave, or doing festivals in town. Also I'll be looking to get involved and volunteer in the community, maybe by joining the YP group, a yoga class, or even volunteering for a presidential campaign (I'll be graduating in May 2016). Also I'm hoping to be able to join and start classes for the part-time Kelley MBA program at IUPUI. So far, I've been looking into places closer to IUPUI. I visited Lockefield Gardens and really liked it, but after looking at reviews online it looks like everyone else doesn't like them (numerous bad reviews, avg. score was below 2.0). I also looked at The Avenue. I loved the location and the apartments seemed very nice, but I'm worried it is mostly for undergrads. Also been looking at 9 on the Canal and Canal Square Apartments. They seem really nice, but more expensive and I'm worried the mix will trend a lot older (like mostly retired people). So do you all have experience with specific apartment complexes in downtown Indy, and if so, where do you recommend a fresh college grad starting his career without connections should live in downtown? Especially if you were looking to do part-time grad school during evenings/weekends at IUPUI? Thanks! __________________________________________________________ Also, do you guys know of any resources like UO that are focused on Indianapolis/Indiana? I couldn't find anything from a couple quick Google searches.

Very art deco. Should be a nice distinction