SWOH

Some good news in Dayton! http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2013/12/02/caresource-said-to-be-considering.html?page=all 250k of office space to be used downtown for this project. I'm torn between hoping they utilize one of the towers downtown with this kind of space (40 W. Fourth and the former Mead Tower are the two top candidates) or building new, at somewhere like the Patterson HS site. Either way, this is great!

Well, I guessed they demolished the correct part. Only the 1908 section of the building will remain, and the particular portion of the building which they put a hole in was built in 1922... http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2013/11/22/downtown-demolition-to-continue-monday.html?page=2 Also - about those pictures I promised earlier... Once I get Flickr figured out they will be up!

I would love for one of these obsolete shopping centers to be demolished and turned into a new urbanist mixed-use development. Agreed. Especially if it could have good walkability to Kenwood, I think it would be one of the hottest and more sustainable places to live in the tri-state. I know at the Greene in Dayton, the condos and apartments within the complex there are in high demand.

Also, back on topic, an interesting read about outside interest in the site from the Cincy Biz Courier: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/11/13/cincinnati-retail-consultant-others.html

Maybe Von Maur? Agreed it is bad news for the Liberty Center. I'm betting they will poach Macy's from Tri-County as the second anchor, because Von Maur already has a store at the Greene. It's still likely Von Maur will try to get into the Cincy market somehow, but somewhere else in the metro would make more sense.

Thanks again for all of the help rustbelter, metrocity, and KJP! Honestly I didn't even have a clue where to start, so I really appreciate all of the suggestions. Sounds perfect, actually! But it looks pretty far away.... That makes sense. Honestly though I looked at Palantine from Google Maps and it looks ok - better than most other places around there. Very fake suburban style, and only one district, but I'm assuming that's what other young professionals gravitate towards? I just wish I could airlift Lakewood there haha This sounds interesting. Really interesting, actually. But I did a quick look on Google Maps, and it looks like it's not walkable to anything. I imagine it would be a cool crowd of people though...

Sounds good. Any specific complexes / streets where I should be looking?

Hopefully this is excellent news, but I would not get excited yet..... We are in direct competition for the facility with Michigan: http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2013/11/01/gm-plant-set-for-up-to-800-new-jobs.html

Title basically sums it up. I'm looking for a good, urban neighborhood, preferably with a decent walkscore and young professional population. Right now, the only place I've found is Elgin, IL. And from the info I've gathered so far, Elgin is a lot like Hamilton, so not a large young professional population. Any other suggestions for where to live? I don't want a 1+ hour commute, I don't even want a 20-minute commute but I think that will be my max. Thanks in advance!

Very cool thread and great pictures Ink! I'm in Oxford now finishing up some stuff, so here's what is happening / has happened recently: Since the pictures posted above, the Armstrong Student Center now has landscaping and sidewalks complete in front. It is scheduled to open in January. Details posted below: http://www.forloveandhonor.org/s/916/flah-2-col.aspx?sid=916&gid=1&pgid=989 MapleStreet Station, the new dining hall posted above has seven restaurants (yes, restaurants) - a pizza place, a Jewish deli, a pastry / baked goods / coffee shop, a Smashburger style burger place, and an IHOP style all-day breakfast place (with the full-service wait staff as well). The other two concepts, a southeast Asian food place and a South American place, have been unsuccessful thus far and will likely be retooled. A floor of dorms are above, and the dining hall replaces the former Hamilton and Scott Dining Halls (which are going to be converted into sorority living rooms). What it looks like inside posted below: http://www.cbtarchitects.com/initiatives/works-in-progress/index.php?id=235 Ethridge Hall sits right next to MapleStreet Station on the newly renovated MET (now MEET) quad. Drainage problems have been fixed and new patio areas have been installed. Additionally, three new dorms are being built on Western campus, as well as a replacement for Alexander Dining Center. They are very large! And they are part of a large plan to re-do all dorms called the Miami Makeover. Links below: http://www.cbtarchitects.com/initiatives/works-in-progress/index.php?id=281 http://www.cbtarchitects.com/architecture/academic/residential-life/index.php?id=223 http://pfd.muohio.edu/projects/Housing_Master_Plan_2011.pdf Anderson and MacFarland Halls are currently being gutted. Renovation should be complete sometime in 2015. In uptown, the former BP is being converted into another larger apartment / retail building. I have not heard about any plans to re-open the Princess yet, but I have heard rumors of a KTV bar opening in town (possibly at the Princess?). Either way, I doubt the Princess will reopen without a liquor license.

Interesting news from Dayton: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/dayton-leads-in-housing-construction/nbRqj/ (sorry it's behind the paywall) Basically it says that more residential building permits were issued within Dayton City Limits than anywhere else in the valley! The housing is a mix of both market rate and and affordable housing, although the affordable housing looks very well done (the largest affordable housing development is Germantown Village: http://www.cr-architects.com/our-work/germantown-village.aspx). And the best part is that it appears this trend may continue. A lot of large developments are coming online in Dayton, from the 200-unit Student Suites project to the 160-unit Water St. project, plus some affordable rate developments like Twin Towers crossings. Exciting stuff! Is the same happening in Ohio's other major cities?

^At least a bad idea is better than no idea at all! Hopefully they will put a cap over FWW sometime in the near future though. Cincinnati is lucky that the highway was built submerged and not above ground, like most highways are in major cities. It's a lot easier to cap and reconnect the city than demolish, submerge, and reconnect a la Boston and the Big Dig. With the success at the Banks and relatively high real estate prices (and demand) throughout the City of Cincinnati, I can easily see a cap being built within the next 5-10 years assuming the right developer and plan are sought.

An issue with the "Travelers" theory - How many "travelers" really are out there anymore? I do not have formal statistics, but I do know anyone personally who budgets extra time to stop at the outlet mall in route from one location to another. If I have to go from Cincinnati to Columbus, I budget 2 hours and that is it. Outlet malls were built in the locations where they are today because they tried to target the largest possible market with the easiest possible highway access. But with rising gas prices, there's not much value in spending $10 in gas plus wear and tear on your car to get a $5 discount on clothes at the outlet mall. To go back on topic, it will be interesting to see how the Monroe outlets have to position themselves after Liberty Center is built. Although I doubt there will be a ton of overlap in the stores offered at the two sites, I'm thinking the Monroe outlets are going to have to re-tool their approach and start serving a lower price demographic. The good news in that is it might allow some re-development of Towne Mall to actually take off as its main competitor would be Liberty Center / Tylersville, not the Monroe outlets as is the case right now.

I don't see any potential for profit with putting a farm over FWW. Or any incentive either. If you are going to farm anything there, might as well be the sun and throw in some solar panels over some low-rise warehouse-style buildings. Possibly put storefronts on the street-facing sides and you'd be set! Great location for a fashion retailer to test and distribute product, like The Limited or Abercrombie and Fitch. Better yet, make it a park as was suggested earlier. If the cap was done correctly, you would not even notice FWW below.

We are not talking about the majority of Cincinnati. What we are talking about are the low density exurbs of Cincy you denote as something to be ignored. Well wake up, these so called low density exurbs have some of the highest wage earners in the entire area. If the residents of simply West Chester and Liberty Townships plus Mason frequent this place it will be enormously successful. And if others like the rapidly expanding Monroe district, plus people from Lebanon chime in it will go through the roof. Agreed with Brill. This location is ideal for this type of development, although I will argue that it is not ideal for anything extremely fru-fru, like Neiman Marcus or the like. Dillard's is probably about as high-end as it should go, and that's not a bad thing. Outlet Malls - the only reasons why the one in Monroe are succeeding are: 1. It is the only mall-like establishment in the area (aside from the unfortunately dead Towne Mall) 2. The stuff it carries is not really "outlet" stuff - basically you pay the same price there as you would at a regular store location, same merchandise, etc. Real outlet malls, like Jeffersonville, built their business model around being a day-trip destination for all of those "off-kilter" items, the stuff that truly did not make the cut at a regular store. Then someone got the idea that outlet malls should trick shoppers by putting regular merchandise in outlet locations. That seemed to go over well, and profits went up, until people finally began to realize they could get the exact same stuff they were getting at the outlet mall for the same price closer to home. So they did that instead. And that's not even factoring in rising gas prices and the fact that many of the hottest brands (lululemon for instance) don't really do outlet malls.

Very cool! It will be interesting to go and drive through Pyramid Hill once it is opened up with the new entryway!

Hamilton is a great city, thanks for posting Ink! Not a place I would mind ending up someday. Any chance you know what is up with the giant red sculpture? Is it part of Pyramid Hall Sculpture Park?

I assume this development is a direct response to the previous Austin Landing plan: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/business/cinemark-to-renovate-south-dayton-theater/nbDCR/

SAF, I agree that more economic development in the area would be good. The issue lies with the cost. Is it really worth it for the Kenwood area to poach Saks from downtown? NO if Saks is making a profit downtown and currently has a plan to stay there for years to come. YES if Saks is unprofitable downtown and is planning to leave once their lease is up. I can see both sides of it. And aside from renovating Sycamore Plaza across the street into a more upscale destination, the Kenwood Collection is likely the only way Saks or another luxury retailer will be able to break into Kenwood easily. I'm still hoping for the retailer to be Neiman Marcus, but we will see what happens.

Cannibalization has begun: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2013/09/30/tri-county-dillards-to-become.html

Miami Twp. voted to approve 200,000 sq. ft. of office space at Austin Landing instead of the cinema, park, ice rink, etc. http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2013/09/26/in-second-vote-reworked-austin.html In my opinion, this is excellent news. Now Austin Landing is less likely to be a net drain on the Dayton Mall area, and will be more likely to land some outside investment with significant job prospects. I know traditionally Austin Landing has only pulled jobs from the Dayton metro, but maybe the site can land some non locally-based tenants. There has been more success recently at doing this in the area, from Assurant's acquisition of the former HP spot on Needmore to P&G's new DC in Union. I'm assuming the movie theater pulled out because there is a movie theater right down the street, and the only way a lot of people even go to movies anymore is if alcohol is served. The theater might not have been able to get a liquor license. I'm especially happy they pulled the plug on the ice rink, because Dayton does NOT need any more sports arena space unless it is downtown or at the Miami Bend Development in West Carrollton (which would actually be pretty cool if it ever happens). So I'm hoping for the best and I'm thrilled the stupidity was eliminated. It would be interesting to see if the development retained any of its walkable elements present in earlier plans.

^Yep. The Heights is ill-conceived. Power Centers are decidedly not the way to go with suburban development. Who can name even one retail chain which is succeeding and rapidly expanding with a power center model? None exist. However, I would argue that a lifestyle center with a lower price point than the Greene would do well there, especially if it was heavy on apartment and townhouse style housing, had maybe one or two larger Class A office spaces, and integrated itself with the YMCA facility, Carriage Hill metropark, and the Carriage Trails development. On another topic, the Dayton library is going to buy the Hauer Music building downtown. Not sure how to feel about this yet - I'm hoping Hauer chooses to stay downtown after relocation. I can see how the site would mesh well with the current library location, so not a complete surprise, but it did catch me off-guard that Hauer was considering relocation. Here's more: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local/dayton-metro-libray-plants-to-buy-hauer-music-buil/nZ2DH/

Agreed about Miami Valley Mall in Piqua for the Dayton area. But I will have to respectfully disagree about Town and Country. It's pretty vibrant right now. Here's a link to their directory: http://www.daytontownandcountry.com/?url=directory/ They have the region's only Trader Joe's, and a lot of the prime chain restaurants (like First Watch, Panera, etc.) are located in less prime space behind the center out of general visibility of major traffic. Also, if we are really going specific about Dayton malls, Northtown, Westtown, Easttown, the now-defunct Forest Park Plaza, and Cross Pointe Center should all be thrown into the mix too. All were build with the intention of serving as an actual "mall" purpose in the area. The Dayton area is also a little weird because of Elder Beerman's and Rike's presence which caused a fair amount of 1960's era centers with 100,000+ department stores as anchors to be built throughout the area. But I assume the same might be true in other cities, as it is evident in Middletown with the original Target and Hill's locations, in Hamilton in certain centers along Rt. 4, etc.

That's great news! I'd still rather they re-develop an existing site, but I understand how the site chosen is probably the most prime downtown real estate right now.

Well this thread would be a lot better if it actually contained the pictures haha. I will re-post them sometime tomorrow, probably using Flickr.