SWOH

Glad to see Warren County doesn't want the eastern bypass to happen either... https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/warren-county-officials-fear-potential-cincinnati-bypass/ynvvfqy43iihu1hbyhGnBI/?icmp=cb_widget

Here's a really good article I ran across a few months ago describing the rise of stick construction. It also does a good job explaining how and why the recent building trend has gone towards larger block style apartment buildings in cities vs. pre-recession suburban build: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-02-13/why-america-s-new-apartment-buildings-all-look-the-same Stick construction is really cost competitive nowadays, and steel prices probably make it even more so. Which makes me wonder why we are seeing so many of these go up as apartment units and so few go up as condominiums. This style of construction is affordable and in demand, even if it has its hazards outlined in the article. The downside is how these buildings will age. It appears some places are putting pressure on this type of construction. I'm thinking for this development in Dayton, Weyland Properties decided to stay one step ahead of the city and build with steel and concrete instead to ensure approval for their building right next to train tracks: https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/new-apartments-proposed-near-oregon-district/yQ2cO1Kc0FjYKjduAF8tIK/

^The renovation is really coming along! Every time I see pictures of the Arcade, I realize it is still hard for me to wrap my head around how cavernous it is... it'll be an amazing space once it is done, glad to see it finally happening.

Amazing neighborhood, hoping those gorgeous old apartment buildings and houses come back to life soon!

Lol they could! Dayton would have the only skyline graced with the logo of a junk store on its second tallest lolol But the redevelopment sounds promising for sure... Delco Lofts was well done, hoping for something similar but some condos starting in the $150k rage going up to $275k would be nice if they can pull it off. I think there would be a lot of demand for that product and would be comparable in cost to their apartments to build.

Forever 21 leaving is going to be a big blow to class B malls all over the US... guessing things will be OK for Kenwood. Looking at the directory map, it's hard to envision Saks moving/adding on to that space to make it work for them unless they were able to get North Face, Victoria's Secret, and American Eagle all relocated to somewhere else in the mall. That being said, given the way downtown is developing now it'd be a great time to put the Saks space to better use in the city and move it out to the suburbs.

About time! Glad it finally sold, and sold to Crawford Hoying. It'll be interesting to see if Sandy Mendelson decides to buy up some dead retail space around Dayton and move the store there or not. He could buy the entire Upper Valley Mall or Towne Mall for a new location and still have a few million left over from this sales price.

I don't think they own the land across the street... the employee surface parking lot is separated from the casino by the parking garage... idk because I've never been in that parking garage but maybe they would be able to build out a hallway or some kind of connection in it?

^I've actually seen the opposite, and am hoping I'm correct, but know you're in there more frequently than me. (they thought the same thing since two anchors closed) The Google reviews are still positive, 4.0 stars out of 5 with many people saying they like the mall. The Ross store is opening in a couple of weeks, and The Room Place is supposed to open shortly after. I've heard they do not own the former Sears or E-B which is unfortunate. The location is solid, with some demolition or rework they could make it at least feel not dead. It'll be interesting to see what happens, but am hoping for the best with Dayton Mall.

Looks like there won't be a Forever 21 in the area between Florence and Beavercreek anymore... they effectively left Cincy altogether. Tbh I'm surprised they are closing at the Dayton Mall but leaving The Greene location open (which is about ~5 miles from their Mall at Fairfield Commons location, which they are also leaving open). Dayton Mall would have been a great compromise location for shuttering The Greene, which has to be higher rent, and Liberty Center. Kenwood is not a surprise given the rent, and Liberty Center is not a surprise given the rent + weak sales.

Again from a Reddit casino employee. Thoughts? Looking at a map, that parking lot would give the hotel the most amount of space and best highway visibility, which is probably what they want. The big downside is it would lack interior access to the casino... the only way they would get that is by building where the circle is now, as was mentioned before. What would be nice to imagine is if the casino actually did good urban development, bought up the surface lots directly south of it and developed them out. Instead of the casino being what it is, the most suburban possible casino on acres of prime real estate downtown. I personally hope Hard Rock jumps the shark and taps into Cincy's Hustler Hollywood roots. Let's gets some mega strip club / sex shop / porn studio in the casino with the hotel lol. Then I'd probably be a fan of the place.

I’m considering getting in to the South Fairmount speculative vacant lot market once the Lick Run project is done. It’d be great to find a good developer for the land that can build something incredible, or maybe develop it myself someday into a great modern townhouse. Do you guys know the rules on owning vacant land in Cincinnati city limits? Is it OK to leave it grow or does it have to be mowed frequently? How often does trash have to be picked up? What options do I have if homeless move on to the land, or will the city care? Are there things I should know to be a good vacant landowner?

Took a minute to read through this thread today... this project is so emblematic of typical Cincinnati it's ridiculous. What started off as a noble effort to make a nice urban park in South Fairmount turned into decimating half of it (or at least it feels like half of it). What's particularly sad is the fact that there's plenty of vacant lots right across the street on either street to have relocated the houses. Or they could have auctioned the houses off for people to relocate. It's pathetic how short-sighted the Crancellers are. Regardless, it looks like the end result will be nice. Hopefully decent infill comes to either side of the park in those vacant lots to make it all worth it.

Isn't that the definition of freeloading?

^It depends on the municipality of work and living though. Right now I am moving to Washington Township, Montgomery County. My property tax rate will be 2.17%, and income tax will be 0%. IF I have moved to the city of Middletown instead, my property tax rate would only be 1.5% but income tax would be 1.75% Because I work in a city that taxes the full 2.5% allowed by the state of Ohio in income tax, none of my tax revenue, no matter where I go, would be shared with the municipality where I live. Because of this, it actually would have been cheaper for me to live in a city like Middletown than a township like Washington Township. So it is very circumstantial. Worth considering the numbers, sure, but given the number of people that work in cities in Sycamore Township, the only thing it would do is add tax to the businesses there, aside from adding a tax to a few people that work at Kenwood Mall that live in Sycamore township or another township. Normally cities incentivize annexation by withholding city services like water, sewer, etc. to new properties, unless those properties conform to annexation. But because those services are already there, annexation is harder to do, but not impossible. For the case of a disjointed township like Sycamore Township, it's hard to see a reason for its existence.

The case for/against highways... a bit off topic, but an interesting discussion for sure! The smartest option seemed like the 1950's way highways were pitched to Americans... build them to the edge of cities, not through them. That being said, for this particular set of highways I agree not keeping the ROW out to I-71 for OH 129 was short sighted. But what would be even dumber is if they give up the possibility of building a highway as shown below... again I am NOT a highway advocate by any stretch of the imagination, but I am a hub airport advocate and am hoping one day, Cincy/Dayton could get a great hub airport right where AK Steel and Suncoke sit now. (please excuse my very poor drawing skills, but what's in the purple blob would be the hub airport [terminal is lime green, runways are black], the red line is the highway, and the red circles would be interchanges... the highway would run from Oxford State Rd's end into Cincinnati-Dayton over to OH 48/US 42 intersection) If that airport and highway happened, Liberty Center would probably be doing great!

^Exactly. Growth rates have been slow in OH for a while now, all this does is shuffle the deck instead of drawing in new people. This development would have done a lot better in Mason. There was a comment a couple years back from West Chester Twp. trustees (quoted in the Cincy Enquirer) saying that they thought it was moronic to put residential in their "town square" BS they have near the library off Union Centre Blvd. And 5+ years later, look at how much development has happened there since they blocked the residential building... NONE! https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3268145,-84.4307572,3a,60y,233.86h,86.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX8ceMnCCUimvs479IuAvDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 I can't imagine Liberty Twp. trustees are any more progressive than their friends to the south.

I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it won't just be a standalone Chick-Fil-A built in that parking lot. More than likely it'll be similar to what was done in Troy for their Chick-Fil-A: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0555795,-84.2406951,3a,75y,238.15h,81.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sazIzwczle3crIhRfXt6qmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 If the developer was savvy and could lock down funding for it, that would be a prime spot for a retail/residential building with a skywalk from the parking garage to the residential component. In which case a taller building would make a lot of sense. But I'm guessing @BigDipper 80 is correct and Kenwood Twp. has height limitations or some other BS that keeps it from happening.

^Sure! The part where I said Liberty Center was in a good location aged poorly too lol. Other than that I still agree with all of the outlet mall comments (which arguably the Monroe outlet mall is the best performing retail center between Dayton and Cincinnati). The Monroe outlet mall always seems to be packed whenever I go there. It'll be really interesting to see where Liberty Center goes from here. I took a look at their directory map and am seeing a ton of vacancies... and I'm also seeing these vacancies in a lot of lower visibility spots created by the center's design. About 3-4 prominent spots are vacant that should not be vacant 3+ years after construction, that is for sure, but there's a lot of weird, blind areas built in to this development. I don't see that being fixed easily, unless they are willing and able to get these spaces converted to office use.

Also reading back through this thread, it's amazing how poorly this comment has aged, although I'd still consider the points about outlet malls selling stuff for the same price as a normal mall is still valid. Liberty Center has really seemed to struggle getting tenants to move in, and recently has had some issues holding tenants.

Just in case SAF is still out there... https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/breaking-news/police-fight-breaks-out-between-juveniles-the-liberty-center/EcgS925dzI7zJCuoCWRSJM/#

Good point... they would have to do less visible doors. Like maybe wall color with no molding and just a sign indicating what it was for. Agreed that having 2x as many of the same door would look cluttered, almost claustrophobic.

^True lol. @mu2010 I’d have to agree. Having been in a fraternity during my undergrad at Miami, the one I was in did similar to what you said. We moved into a house that was formerly occupied by another fraternity and it was disgusting. So there was no hazing but a ton of cleaning, painting, fixing, etc. There was a strict no-hazing culture. It would be a lot more productive to do exactly what you said and put the kids through grueling work instead of grueling alcoholism.

Amazing set!! For anyone reading out there, this building is (was? the listing was there a week or two ago but I cannot seem to find it) for sale, and in a prime location to be modernized...

I really like how they have the mechanical area open out to the hallway instead of the living area, that is a genius idea for better using space.