Jeffery

It would be interesting to see pix of what was on-site before it was cleared for Erieview. @@@ This one seems to show what is now parking lot had two substantial high-rises that helped enclose the square..fairly late, no? @@@ Those two b&W street seens (day and night) look like stills from an old film noir! Love that stuff....

Ive always wondered what this place looked like

I have two "homes"...Chicago and Louisville. I feel at home in both places. Chicago of course would be my preference but I can't afford to live there. Louisville I can. I am not a fan of Louisvilles suburbia, which is a lot "worse" than here in Dayton in turns of low-quality & poorly planned development. Dayton is superior to Louisville (and maybe even Cincy) if one likes suburban living. I really don't, though i do live in suburbia. Louisvilles' progressive/hipster urban culture there appeals to me, as does the physical form of the preWII city. And I am a big fan of the Jefferson Memorial Forest since I love to hike. That and other preserves south and north of the city make Lou a good spot for hikers. My appreciation for Kentucky is aesthetic, the landscape and some of the rural (upper) South culture. I recognize the people are pretty ignorant. But Ive run across a lot of ignorant people in Dayton, too. More than I'd expect from white collar college "educated" folks. People seem slightly more cosmopolitan & aware in Louisville and Lexington (Lexington is a different story...yes it sprawls, but its more like a little Columbus). Maybe the thing about Kentucky is that its suprising that it isn't as bad & backward as one would expect and whats disapporinting about Ohio is that its more backward than it should be, given whats available and the legacy of economic prosperity here.. ...and I should say I dont want to trash talk Ohio. I think Ive posted enough on Cleveland here, for example, for readers to know how much I like that city.

Based on the terms of that article I am stuck. But I might get an early retirment/buyout offer in the next two or three months, which means I will relocate back to Kentucky. As for Ohio...I can think of worse places to be stuck in. Though Dayton does well & truly suck (I tell myself things could be worse & I could be in Lima) it IS close to Cincinnati, close enought to spend a lot of time there, and is reasonably close to Columbus for the occasional drive (same for Louisville)....and Cincy is one great city to be within easy driving distance from. Cant get enough of that place. Its reputation for conservatism is unfounded, IMO, given what I see of the place and whats going on...

I didnt realize it driving by there so often (yes the speed trap is infamous tho I was not a vicitim of it)...that H-burg is right on Ceasars Creek Lake. Seems like this place makes use of that?

^ yeah..they were built in Columbus, correct?

Apropos of nothing, except trivia....Louisville connections to Cincy politics: City manager Doheney was deputy mayor of Louisville. Chris Seelbach is a Louisville native, attened St X highschool before going on to that other X, Xaivier U

For Mecks fantasy TGV/BART line I'd swap the Moraine station for one at Austin Pike. And his concept of using I-75 as the ROW is good as it recognizes the modern growth is along those interchange nodes...it would be possible to do something futuristically funky like have circulator buses or even PRT things like they have at airports between the office parks and such, connecting with stations.

KJP, you might want to see how the Chicago commuter rail lines used to operate. Before Metra & RTA I read that some of the suburbs set up special purpose districts that subsidized commuter service for individual routes as they became unprofitable to their respective operaters. I think the authority that runs the South Shore service would be similar (I think under Indiana law, but they also serve Illinois stops).

Better than I thought. I thought so, too. I've been through here and when I saw the title I thought "Oh brother, another of inks small-town-sameness thread"...but we see some good detail here. ink has developed an eye for that, finding these gems even in prosaic places like Sabina.

I had just moved to Dayton when this was happening...the demolition. I vaguely recall that building (and others) still standing, and recall the controversy about the demolition. Around that time Springfield was also really broke. I recall they had eliminated their garbage removal department and had turned off the streetlights since they couldnt afford the power. So no money at all for restoration. Yet they did find the $$$ somewhere for demoltion. The Doubletree is nice, though. Nice to see a hotel like that in the heart of a smaller Ohio city. They could use one in downtown Youngstown.

Those hill shots at the end, are you looking into downtown from there? I like the retail aspect. Definetly getting a Bardstown Road/Highlands vibe with this place (looks like the housing stock is similar age, and I see they also have apartments).

C-Dawg you bring up an interesting point... if you need to make money and don't have any, your choices are very limited. But if you already have money, you can afford to pursue a more rounded education, or even a non-essential major. This has been going on for decades. I know I didnt go to college for a well-rounded education. I went for upward mobility, becuase for my generation and my background you went to college so you could get a white-collar job or enter the professions. So, upward mobility, but also better working conditions (working in AC vs a foundry) and maybe more status. It wasnt about this so-called "liberal education".

Back to the recession. Turns out this could have been avoided. Financial Crisis Was Avoidable, Inquiry Finds WASHINGTON — The 2008 financial crisis was an “avoidable” disaster caused by widespread failures in government regulation, corporate mismanagement and heedless risk-taking by Wall Street, according to the conclusions of a federal inquiry. The commission that investigated the crisis casts a wide net of blame, faulting two administrations, the Federal Reserve and other regulators for permitting a calamitous concoction: shoddy mortgage lending, the excessive packaging and sale of loans to investors and risky bets on securities backed by the loans Let the finger pointing begin. But, what this says is that we have systemic failure driven by greed, & the self-serving ideologies used to justify policy that facilitates this greed.

If incomes are stagnant and falling and employment is not improving, what does that mean for the housing market? Seriously, folks....

Brookings reports the acceleration of changes in concentrated povery for the 00's. 2000 to 2009. For Ohio This could be seen as a sympton of the "Long Recession" of the 2000s, wiping out positive trends of the 1990s.... The Re-Emergence of Concentrated Poverty Ohio is well represented in the Top 10 metro areas showing increases in concentrated poverty For Center city, increases by % National Rank: 2 Youngstown, 36.3% increase in concentrated poverty National Rank: 4 Dayton, 25.2% increase in concentrated poverty National Rank: 10 Toledo, 19.4% increase in concentrated poverty. For concentratred poverty in suburbia: National Rank: 4 Cleveland, 8% increase National Rank 8 Toledo, 6.6% increase National Rank 10 Youngstown 6.4% increase Metro-wide the top rankings are: Toledo, #1, 15.39% in concentrated poverty, with 15 tracts moving to this status during the decade Youngstown, #3, 14.3% in concentrated poverty, with 11 tracts moving to concentrated poverty status. Dayton, #9, 9.9% in concentrated poverty, with 8 tracts shifting to concentrated poverty status in the 00s.

Believe it or not Grand Rapids is the closest equivilant to Dayton in metro area population size and scale of their economy (as measured by Gross Metropolitan Product), yet look at what a wreck Dayton is in comparison to GR.

...as Gay Fawkes. (lucky me no metal detectors at the bars I went to that night)

Factory Square Art & Craft fair, @ the "Occupy Cincy" container (?)

Nice to see MTS and DanB on the same page. I can hear the champaign glasses clinking as they toat each other. Maybe we should rename this board SmugOhio instead of UrbanOhio.

They are probably getting poorer ALSO due to the poor economy, which is what is happening in Dayton. I don't think you can blame this increase in suburban proverty just on sprawl anymore, given how deep the economy crashed.

I should also say that earlier in the year, back in Septmeber, the city officials gave a talk on this at the quarterly LGBT community dinner, so they are pushing this to non-immigrant interest groups in the city. I, personally, don't see a connection with LGBT issues, and in fact know that in Sacramento the situation for lesbians and gays actually deteriorated due to a homophbic Russian immigrant community (who were evangelical Christians). So I'm a bit leery of this on one hand. Yet I know in the case of Toledo, it was a Latino politicians who helped spearheaded gay rights in that city.

This is getting some national attention. MSNBC interview with the mayor. Here's the transcript ....this week, illegal immigrants in alabama are racing to sign documents allowing friends to care for their kids if they're deported. it stems from the nation's toughest immigration law there. while some states push for tougher laws, dayton , ohio is making their city more attractive to immigrants. welcome dayton plan makes it easier for immigrants to get settled there. joining me now, the mayor of dayton . nice to have you on with us. explain the details of this plan and this way that you've come up with to capitalize on what other states are pushing away from. And from the AP: DAYTON, Ohio — On the same afternoon thousands of Hispanics in Alabama took the day off to protest the state's strict new immigration law, Mexican-born Francisco Mejia was ringing up diners' bills and handing containers piled with carnitas to drive-thru customers on the east side of Dayton.... ... It's the kind of success story that leaders in Dayton think offers hope for an entire city. It has adopted a plan not only to encourage immigrants to come and feel welcome here, but also to use them to help pull out of an economic tailspin. (more at the links, including the usual comments)

That list from worst place to be young says Dayton is #5! And that the % of pop with a BA/BS actually declined by 12%? Woah!

Damn! Double-Damn! I am going on a Canal Society of Ohio tour of the Dayton area canal system...this is part of their annual meeting, which is being held in Dayton this year. Already paid my fee and all. Its going to be on the 22nd, an all-day affair via bus and on-foot. I'd would have certainly liked to do this & would have loved to meet y'all.... but maybe next time. Hope you all have a good meet, and my best wishes to y'all!