Jeffery

The latest component of Daytonnati continues apace, and is apparenty being pitched as part of a regional office market… Austin Landing likely home to 1M sq.ft. of retail, offices Local government officials estimate once the entire 1,200 acres surrounding the interchange are developed, roughly 20,000 people will be working in the area. ….around the same work population as Union Center, which has generated around 17,000 jobs, according to West Chester Township. Austin Landing (the NE corner) appears to have a larger and more visible retail component though. Montgomery County Commissioner Debbie Lieberman said the proposal maps that she has seen would make the Austin Landing development the premier location for retail and office space in Montgomery County. “This is our stake in the ground on the 75 corridor,” Lieberman said. “This is our shot.” The article also goes on to imply that the development marketed to office tenants in suburban Cincy. The location helps Austin Landing, too, Maas said. Businesses that locate at Austin Landing will be able to pull employees from Cincinnati’s northern suburbs. ...so, office users, why locate in congested old Tri-County or Blue Ash or West Shell when the wide open spaces of the suburban frontier beckon at Austin Road...

Latest development at Austin Road. The Dayton Business-Journal reports: Austin Landing likely home to 1M sq.ft. of retail, offices Site plans for the mixed-use development call for roughly 1 million square feet of space. The development breaks down into 450,000 square feet of office space, more than 422,000 square feet of retail space, a hotel, a fitness club and an 80,000-square-foot theater, entertainment or retail center. >snip< Highlights of the Austin Landing site plan include: • two 120,000-square-foot office buildings, two 60,000-square-foot office buildings and a 90,000-square-foot office building; • a parking structure for nearly 650 cars; • two retail anchors, one at 80,000 square feet and another measuring 87,200 square feet; • two smaller, “junior” retail anchors; • a hotel; and • a corridor of retail space at the center of the development. Note this is only the northeast corner of the interchange. And its pretty clear by this significant retail component that the initial concept of “protecting” the Dayton Mall area by focusing this development on office/industrial/etc, has been discarded…as I suspected it would be when they announced RG Properties as the prime developer. RG specializes in retail development. Also, they are quite clear they intend on going after the remaining office tenants downtown: Unfortunately for downtown Dayton, which already is saddled with an office vacancy rate of more than 37 percent, Maas said Austin Landing is a draw for tenants currently in the city of Dayton. He said Austin Landing is in play for some downtown office users.

The Arcade is still there. So is Xenia Avenue, Wayne Avenue, Belmont, etc. "To get the city you want you have to use the city you have".

...the neighbor, the Joy Shop, did make the transition to suburban stirp centers because I remember them from Louisville, as a tenant in Dixie Manor (a big shopping center from the 1950s). Both those storefronts, the Joy Shop and Richmans, are still open as clothing stores (but not as those brands), some of the very last retail left on Dayton's Main Street.

Another few shots of the Arcade Dayton History Books Online This is Smales Pretzels. They are still in business on Xenia Avenue in Twin Towers, selling pretzels and pasta. You can buy them warm right out of the oven. In the market area: Tasty Bird Chicke, Eden Meats, Arcade Seafood… Arcade Seafood is still in business a few blocks to the north (and they are open on Saturdays, too, one of the few downtown food places that are). They were the very last tenant in the Arcade. You used to have to cross an alley to get from the Arcade to the “dome” part, which I think is the “discount center” in this pic. Note that this place was pretty busy based on the glimpse of people through the door. I think the Discount Center is the store to the left? This used to be Culps? It’s been recreated, sort of, at Carillon Park (old timers will recall those U-shaped counters) In the Arcade…jewelry …and hats The Arcade, lets bring it back. In answer to Sherman’s question, there is no firm redevelopment plan. The latest news was the Wisconsin guys who bought it tried to interest the library in relocating to the Arcade but the library director is cool to the idea. The park district operates a market in the Webster Station loft area just east of downtown, the Second Street Market, in a converted freight house. So I doubt there will be an attempt to duplicate market functions in the Arcade since there is already another one. However, it should be noted there was more than one market in Dayton. There was a market off of East Third, the St Clair wholesale market, the Wayne Avenue Market House (sort of like the West Side Market or Findlay Market, a neighborhood market), which even had kosher butchers since there was a large Jewish community off Wayne. And there used to be a market in Webster Station area, a part of which was converted into this fire house (back part into a police station): (people familiar with this area will recognize what is now The Merc to the left, Delco/Mendelsons surplus in the background to the left. Team tracks from the freight houses in the foreground. @@@@ A few more… Steve Kender (sr?) and family in front of Kenders, which apparently was a Hungarian place, based on the window sign… To show you how much has been lost even in my time, is that I actually remember this scene, in fact I was in that brick four-plex apartment building at the extreme right, the first floor far right apartment, since a good friend of mine lived there. He was an art student at Sinclair but worked at MVH for a day job. He relocated to San Francisco, and this entire block was removed for MVH expansion. …since this was on a hill he had a good view over the Fairgrounds neighborhood over towards UD. Belmont Someplace in Belmont, probably on Watervliet: Watervliet and Smithville in Belmont, looking south on Smithville. The D-X bus barn on the left. DX was an interurban that converted to bus operations. Trolley buses in the city, gas busses through Beavercreek to Xenia (fairly frequent service, too, back then). “Downtown Belmont”..Watervliet and Smithville looking south on Watervliet ..there was a Beermans about a block down this street. This is 1958 and this shopping district would be rendered obsolete by new strip centers opening just to the south (Van Buren Plaza on Smithville and Brietenstrader at Patterson & Wilmington)

What it was was a little Chicago.

Here's another Arcade pix...Nu-Way Bakery I guess Im suprised on how active (and leased) the Arcade was as late as 1969. Maybe it could have survived as a market, the way the North Market did in Columbus? The guy who owned it wanted to turn it into a Dayton version of the Cannery in San Francisco, but maybe it could have remained viable as a downtown place for food, services, small retail (even if somewhat scruffy and low key, as in these pix).

Clever. ODOT is supporting Strickland with that interpretation. Good for Strickland. He is pushing back, which will put the GOP on the spot. The only way they can stop the study is to go to court. However the real showdown is kicked down the road, becuase the accepting the actual investment will, apparently, require that supermajority. Is there a time limit on accepting the full $400B?

So when does this supermajority board vote? Is and is there a drop dead date?

..they way the politics are playing out this thread stands a good chance of being moot in the near future and probably will or should be archived, after the post-mortem posts.

..it is a recurring cost, since roads have to be resurfaced and eventually rebuilt. There is a life-cycle issue here, too. Thats the elegant nature of the gas tax, is that is (in theory) a way to maintain and recapitalize the infrastructure, that is closely tied to the use of that infrastructure.

The little Big City….even though the skyscrapers were lower it seemed a bigger place back then, more cityfied somehow... Downtown, don’t you want to go Down--town…cue Petula Clark… This place must have looked great at night…. (Two Legs was a custom tailor, too) Downtown…steak houses and cocktail lounges (Green Mill & Gold Coin0 Matchbook from the Gold Coin (note the union ‘bug’, showing this was made in a union print shop) Cocktail Lounges, we loves them yes we do…..the Steppe Inn in the Arcade Inside the Arcade, when it was a market (1969, still hopping even that late in time) Barber & shoe shine, recall there were apartments in here, too…you could live here and go grocery shopping and get a hair cut downstairs… More Arcade scenes can be found here (you will enjoy them. Good photography, too) Neighborhood snaps Fifth Street in the Haymarket (1151 east) (familiar church steeple in the background) 600 block of Wayne Xenia & Wayne Richard Street Richard and Wayne (The two buildings to the left are probably from the 1860s or earlier. Richard heads off into the distance. Eagle is coming in up a slopt at that building facing us. Wayne runs from left to right. We are on that hill the Steamboat House and Emerson School are on.) A few blocks further east, Al's Bar 1500 block of Richard, St Paul theatre Globe Laundry, 1727 E Richard Some west side snaps….Germantown and Broadway: (I think ColDayMan has a family connection to the drugstore across the street) Sunshine Grill in Edgemont (Sunshine Biscuit bakery in background) West Side Hungarians doing something folkloric at the social hall A few blocks south, Kenders bar on W Third…Mr Kender…. Steve & Gwen… …note most of these are Cincy brands (but I also see a case of Falls City!). Dayton did have post-repeal local beers, but I think they where gone by the mid 1950s? These and much more pix from Dayton in the ‘50s can be found here

Historically, putting in the backbone system, the original network of paved roads, was not done via gas tax. It was done by appropriation and, in some cases, by trolley and interurban lines as a condition of their franchises. So the network, or the start of one, had to be in place for automobility to take off. Then the gas tax made the system somewhat self-sufficient as mass auto use could generate enough revenue to pay for pavement.

After reading about that Wisconsin opposition, I wonder if this is a coordinated campaign? Are we seeing similar opposition surface elsewhere?

Retropolitan needs to take off that Chicago skyline banner. I thought it was Chi-based at first. But good comment about the lack of political will to do this, the timid Democrats yet again caving in and not pushing back. At least we are seeing support from the Dayton Daily News down here in Dayton, thuogh it is a Dayton politician, Husted, who is part of the opposition.

Has Indiana shown any interest in upgrading passenger rail service, aside from that transportation district supporting the South Shore? State chauvinism aside, my vote is to spend the money on states that have shown a political and financial committment to rail service. If the GOP rejects this $400B it proves Ohio is not one of those states willing to politically support passenger rail. And, sorry to say, this will be national news, too (I'll bet). The news will be the GOP handing a defeat to Obama and the Democrats and yet another signal that Ohio is a backward, regressive place.

Oops, forgot to add (just joined) Forgotten Chicago (since Im enough of a graybeard to remember...)

The other DDN article (followed by $400M for rail plan could be rejected 3 Republicans may block the state’s passenger train plan, which includes area stops. ...followed by 288 mostly tea-party-esque comments. With some rebuttals. Seems that opposing this has become a right wing cause. Amazing. So, which state would you like to see get the $400B if the Ohio GOP reject the money? I vote for upgrading the Chicago/Milwaulkee corridor.

The Dayton Daily News has two stories on this: This one has a good positive spin in the opening parags: Legislative Panel may put brakes on passenger rail One GOP member must vote for plan for it to move ahead. RIVERSIDE — Excitement has been building for months about the planned train station across the street from the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force and within walking distance of the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.... ....But plans for the 3-C Corridor rail service could soon come to a screeching halt if Republican members of the state controlling board vote to turn down the $400 million awarded to the project from President Obama’s federal stimulus program. ...the closing parags quote one Ken Pendergast: Plan a step toward high-speed rail “We call it learning to walk before you run,” said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio, a grassroots advocacy organization. “Ohio hasn’t had train service in 40 years.”

Believe it or not there is another Methodist Church atop a high-rise...the Chicago Temple: ...the spire is considerably more dramatic, eh? This was the First Methodist church, the oldest congregation in Chicago. They still had their 1830s property in the heart of the Loop so built that big skyscraper on it and stuck the church on top. This was the tallest building outside of NYC until the Terminal Tower was built (according to Wiki).

...well, you are the professional historian, not me. My guess was that Cincinnati had the boost of having a very productive hinterland very close by, combined with the canal access starting in 1829. I think maybe Cincy got into manufacturing earlier, too?

City-Data SSP DaytonMostMetro Time Zone

The first postwar high rise in Louisville was not modern. The Commonwealth Building was a late 1920s or early 1930s design, executed in the 1950s, right down to the rooftop beacon. It was built on top of a four story base that had been completed just as the Depression hit. Downtown Louisville had to wait to 1962 for its first truly modern high-rise. This was Trinity Tower, a 17 story apartment building, Trinity because it was built by Trinity Methodist Temple for retired Methodists. It was a species of non-profit high rise housing for the elderly. Louisville had three others of this type; Baptist Towers (built by the Southern Baptists), Hildebrandt House (built by the IAM, the machinist union), both in Old Louisville, and a suburban high rise at the Jewish Community Center for Jewish senior citizens. The building was deliberately designed with somewhat blank east and west side walls to minimize solar gain, as can be seen from this view down Guthrie Street Guthrie was a short east-west street, one that is occasionally seen downtown. It was also the first experiment at pedestrianization. The white building in the foreground is the Speed Building of 1913, one of the larger terra cotta installations downtown. You might have noticed some stuff at the top. This is the Chapel in the Sky, a rooftop Methodist church (since the residents were probably mostly Methodist), and a roof deck next to it. Rooftop antennae are unintentionally cross-shaped. The east side wall, being mostly blank, provides a good canvas for a local banner campaign celebrating local celebrities…in this case a certain old guy in a white suit. Another view, along Third Street (the short side faces Third, long side facing Guthrie). Behind Trinity Towers across Guthrie is the old Madrid Ballroom, which hosted things as diverse as swing bands, Duke Ellington, and bluegrass jamborees. The amoeba shaped treatment on th near e storefront is for the UofK/UofL joint venture urban design/planning studio & exhibition space. Be nice if we had something like that in Dayton. @@@ Most of the tall (over 10 stories) buildings that went up downtown during the 1960s were for housing. The year after this The 800 opened, just south of Broadway. Then a bunch of high rise public housing things went up. Probably the first modern office high rise to go up downtown was the Federal Building. After that two private sector ventures in the east downtown urban renewal area; the Vermont-American offices and the “Tuning Fork Building” (more on that later). The first 20 story office tower finally opened in 1971.

^ That is one of the best questions about Louisville development. One can see 4th being "greater among equals" as early as the 1880s as the new post office was built on it. I've read that the more intensley used and developed part of the wharf was were 4th met the river, where Beargrass Creek met the river. This was the landing used by the Cincinnati mail boats. So 4th and adjacent streets became perhaps more important than the other north-south streets. I'm not sure horse car and street car lines might had that much to do with it...though 4th did have a car line. Louisville didnt have one or two streets all the lines came in on...it was more of a network downtown. Intersections became key transfer points, though. But that is an interesting line of inquiry. @@@ As promised here is a better pix of the grand old Columbia Building, opened in 1890. Supposedly the tallest building in the South when it was built. The street to the right is 4th, dropping down to the river. You can see the change in grade as the Columbia Building arches get taller as you head further down grade. Aslo note the letters L H St L in the top windows. These were the offices for the Louisville, Henderson, & St Louis Railroad. This was a subsidiary of the L&N and tapped the western Kentucky market, cutting into Evansville's trading area. I don't know if it ever reached St Louis, but it did bridge the Ohio at Henderson. The building was apparently influenced by the Romanesque styles of Chicago architecture of the time (Chicago was influential on Louisville high-rise design), as it does have a resemblance to The Rookery of 1885-1886.

Wow....those apartment buildings!!! A sea of apartments. They remind me just a bit of the row upon row of art deco/moderne apts off Mass Avenue in DC, north of Rock Creek Park. And yes, I can see the Hudson <---> Ohio thing, too. Good call on that. This looks like the kind of neighborhood Id love to live in.