Jeffery

I know L'Hommedieu's ancestors were supposedly Huegenots. He also predicted that Cincicinnati and Dayton would grow together along the line of his railroad. He was a bit premature.

……a brief continuation of this thread on old downtown houses as an indication of what inner Louisville used to look like. The natural growth of the CBD combined with urban renewal pretty much culled the old housing stock from downtown but there are survivors beyond the “Old House” we saw in the previous thread. On the east side of downtown is an unacknowledged but perhaps very rare survivor from antebellum Louisville. Based on the Federal/Neoclassical detailing (around the door and the cornice) and proportions this house is probably contemporary with the Old House, from maybe the 1830s, perhaps even the 1820s. Perhaps built during the first great era of expansion due to opening of steamboat traffic. The house also has a long tail or L to the rear, with a monopitch roof and exterior porch or gallery. A collage of aerials showing the house, along with an excerpt from the 1876 real estate map, to give a bit of context. Christ Church, at the top of the map, is perhaps the oldest building downtown, dating to the 1820s (subsequently heavily modified) which might indicate this area was being built-out during that time. The aerials also show the paired chimney arrangement on the side facades, which one sees in houses in antebellum images of the city/ Diagramming this house in roof plan and elevation one sees, perhaps, an early version of a certain type of town house vernacular for Louisville; the low (two or three story) front house with roof line parallel to the street and a long tail or L with a monopitch roof and exterior gallery. This houseform could be free-standing or developed as a set of rowhouses. The surviving examples, like this one, are free-standing. Styles vary (neoclassical or Italianate) but the basic form is found in surviving older houses throughout the close-in neighborhoods, and frequently appear in plan in the two 19th century real estate atlases of the city. One could speculate that this houseform might have been found in Cincinnati, but evolved into the taller party-wall tenement style one sees in OTR and the West End. Perhaps an Ohio Valley urban vernacular, found in other river cities? This 1906 Sanborn line map shows the house in its context, the urban fabric of close-in old Louisville, of 2 and 3 story height (compared the relatively higher and more solidly built up of close-in old Cincinnati). The rows we saw in the previous “Old House” post were just around the corner at the end of the block. Inspection of the map suggests there were still a number of rows and town houses in this area. By the early 1960s the character of the neighborhood had changed via commercial expansion of downtown, clearances for parking, and, perhaps, the demolitions for the start of urban renewal (this house was in the East Downtown urban renewal zone). By the early 1980s urban renewal and freeway construction has culled the old urban fabric, except Christ Church and its dependencies, and this house. On the west of side of downtown are two survivors from the “Italianate city”, the villa district that had developed south of Walnut Street. The first, at the corner of Chestnut and Fifth, I’ll call the “Pesto House” since there is the Pesto Italian restaurant on the ground floor. The house is wrapped with this one story retail addition, but behind that is a big Italianate villa. The 1906 Sanborn shows that this has a stone façade but you’d never know it under that yellow paint Note the two story structure to the rear. This also appears on the 1876 real estate map, so we are perhaps seeing yet another older structure. The final old house is half block south. This is the Brennan House. The house was built in 1868, during the post Civil War economic boom, and was bought by the Brennan family in 1883. The Brennans lived here until 1969, after which it was donated to the Filson Club (a local historical society), and was opened as a house museum in the late 1970s. The house is now operated by the Louisville Historic League. Since the house was in the same family for so long, and since the Brennans were collectors, the house is a museum of antiques, household items, etc. The house and it’s neighbors in the 1870s. “That evening sun”….the house on a sunny late afternoon in the Fall of 1973, the HABS documentation photo: The massive cornice and elaborate corbelling shows nicely here. The left side entrance led to a doctors office, now operated as small exhibit. Today the “Pesto” and Brennan houses are surrounded by the parking lots, garages, and commercial uses typical of the edge of downtown. But some of their neighbors from the 1860s and 70s may still remain, as noted in this aerial One house might be buried in later commercial additions to the front and rear, perhaps indicated by the characteristic roof line behind the storefront facing Chestnut Street. The lower right thumbnail traces a notional outline of the original house. Another is more obvious, perhaps a small house now an office or some other commercial use. And, finally, the big picture, from the air. The three old houses located on a late 1930s or 1940s aerial of the southern part of downtown Louisville. North, and the river, is to left. East is to the top. The cluster of high rises at the right edge of the image are about 3/4 miles south of the Ohio, indicating how downtown Louisville grew south from the river. One can see the corrosive force of automobility hasn’t yet totally dissolved the urban fabric and the vast clearances for urban renewal have yet to decimate the old city. The taller and massive downtown buildings on the blocks along Fourth Street (running north/south, of left-to-right) seem to emerge out of the matrix of low-rise building. Nearly all of this is gone today. We’ll explore downtown Louisville, especially this part, in a later post.

Fort Waynes rivers remind me a bit of the one through South Bend, in that they dont have that aggressive channelization treatment that was given the Great Miami in Dayton.

Cin-Day Sher-Man!

It has me thinking Hemet or Redlands. heh..aint it! I 'd have to say "The Condfederacy" would be those exurban counties south of the NK Three, which are part of the Cincy MSA. ...and Dayton has Darke & Preble County for that Midwest rural-yet-part-of-MSA thang.

So we think this is really about money for the demo guys? Here is Dayton a demolition contractor was major contributor to the campaign of a city commissioner, the commisioner who is advocating a large scale demo program to "right size" Dayton...this was discovered by a local blogger who got the CFRs from the BoE office.

Bummer

Entire neighborhoods have been obliterated on the west side..buisness corners as well as residential districts. Now they are working on the east side, which now has the highest concentration of 19th century building stock om Dautpm, and on the north side. Dayton is on its way out, and "thats just the way it is"....the place is over. In Cincy, however, there is still hope. There is enough of the old city left, enough of the old urban fabric left, that the city hasn't lost its character (or is in danger of losing its character the way Dayton is). I was struck by this this past Sunday afternoon, sunny day, taking a walk down McMicken and then down to Liberty and Walnut and Vine, the areas north an east of Findlay Market, how much is still left.

Whats cool is that there actually is someone speaking up against this in Cincinnati. Here in Dayton they are going to be doing a big demo project and the urban advocates, preservationsits. and historic district people actually support this. The idea is this is just old junk (unless its in their particular historic district). One of the reasons Dayton is such a lost cause.

You, this Sharonville thing...and I know this is just speculation....this Sharonville end-of-the-line reminds me a lot of how the old South Shore line didnt go into downtown but ended in the western suburbs of South Bend, and you had to take a cab downtown since they didnt have bus service either. Evnetually they terminated the line at the South Bend airport, which was better, but still pretty weak compared to a downtown terminal. Both situations were unsatisfying, so I agree with Rando on his points....that they need to really find a way of getting the line into downtown Cincy (downtown, not CUT). Then you'd get the benefit of recreational travel to the stadium and downtown things, which could be a real market for this line. That is what Riverside is banking on...recreational travel to and from the Air Force Musuem (though they...probably Riverside...will need to run a shuttle bus from the station & hotels to the museum). Anyway, I agree with Rando on dtwn Cincy is a must-have, if not now, very soon.

^ I imagined I am somewhere in Europe, than I saw the Union Station sign...

The Dayton Daily News editorializes that this is a good opportunity for Dayton: Dayton Gets Break in Trains Decision; Follow-up is Key Whatever one thinks of the federal pasenger train program, it presents an opportunity for Dayton and the state. The route the new trains will take is described by one newspaper as linking “the state’s three largest cities (and Dayton) by passenger train for the first time since 1971.” If Dayton doesn’t use this opportunity that other mid-size cities would love, it’s not only missing the train, but the proverbial boat... (more at link) The comments are predictably anti: "This is just another AMTRAK. The fares will not cover the expenses and Ohio taxpayers will have to make up the difference! People think!" and... Now the laughing turns to reality. The trivial amount paid for the startup will leave HUGE amounts to be funded by the states. That along with paying to operate after the thing is built will be a huge drain on state budgets. We are not Europe. We are not the east coast with highly populated, close-by areas. ————————-I found that Cincinnati Cleveland will be 6.5 hours. I can drive it in 3.5. I can only guess what Dayton to Columbus is—2.5??? So for that morning appointment, unless it’s within 3 blocks of the train station will require 4 hours of get up, drive to Dayton train station, wait for train, ride for 2.5 hours, then take taxi to location. Same for return trip, if it’s even possible in the same day. —————This is a joke ...so they are making some subsidy and praticality arguments against this.

Im thinking the North Carolina passenger service might be a good case study since it serves a state that has a lot of urban sprawl and is also fairly politically conservative (thinking about both the politics of support and the type of place)

Im curious about what Florida has going on. I understand the Orlando/Tampa thing as an excellent demo project to sell the concept to tourists, who would return home wanting one for their state, but FLA has an even higher speed line projected between Orlando and Miami...180 - 190 MPH.

It would be intresting to see if they actually get passenger service in KY again. But nice to hear about bipartisan support for it. Get 'r done!

Strickland will be long gone before any of that comes to pass. The way the polling is looking the voters seem prepared to give him the heave-ho in favor of Kaisich, who will pull the plug on 3-C. And we know that John Husted is opposed. This has become a partisan political issue.

On a more positive note, from the blogosphere in Dayton, uberblogger Esrati opines: Why Trains are Good For Ohio (plus some critical comments from the libertarian peanut gallery) ...then over at Dayton Most Metro a very upbeat thread on how to take advantage of 3-C stop in Dayton: 3C + D Corridor Anyone can comment on Esrati (and I invited proponents to do so since this is an influential blog), but you have to register to contribute to Dayton Most Metro.

I tend to agree with this, except the Feds seem to be supporting places that already support high-speed rail. Recall that it was Wisconsin Dept. of Transporation, WisDoT, that initiated the concept of a midwest regional rail system centered on Chicago, and put money behind this by subsiziding service betwen Milwaulkee and Chicago. So we see more money going to Wisconsin. And Californians passed a referendum supporting a high-speed system in their state, and Feds are kicking in billions to match this support. As we all know there is very little political support for passenger rail in Ohio, based on past referendums and the actions of the GOP in Columbus, yet the Feds kick in $400M to Ohio, for a line that doesnt really line up with the Midwest hub concept focused on Chicago, plus is in a declining state. Good investment? Hmm....

I've been listening to these alot on my road trips up & back to Louisville: Blitzen Trapper: Black River Killer EP Magnolia Electric Company: Josephine (apparently the lead from this band is from Lorain!?) One Eskimo (Duffy-esque?) ..and, at home, lonley nostalgia, the old Gin Blossoms New Miserable Experience (oldy but goody).

^ Riverside is going to be the second Dayton area station, located across from the Air Force museum. The Riverside politicos are really pumped about this line coming through.

If Strickland wanted to play hardball he would pull the Dayton and Riverside stations as "cost saving moves" and reallocate $$$ to the CUT (or wherever downtown) extension as political payback, since Husted represents the Dayton area.

Mayor Leitzell is making some moves. From the DDN: Mayor Announces Development Advisors The members of the Dayton Mayor’s Leadership Council: * David H. McDonald (Co-Chair), president, The McDonald Group LLC * Jeff Samuelson, AIA (Co-Chair), managing member, jz Companies * Phillip L. Parker, CAE, CCE, president & CEO, Dayton Area Chamber of Commerce * Gregory M. Gantt, Esq., partner, Allbery Cross Fogarty, chairman Montgomery County Republican Party * Thomas A. Raga, vice president of advancement Sinclair Community College * S. Ted Bucaro, government and regional relations director University of Dayton * Anne Higdon, president, ISUS Corp. * Larry E. Couchot, partner, Couchot Hogenkamp * William Duncan, partner, Thorn, Lewis and Duncan Inc. * Julie Liss-Katz, director of public affairs, Premier Health Partners * Glenn Alexander, former Dayton Fire Chief * Stacy M. Thompson, Dayton Public Schools board member, KeyBank Vice President * Cassandra S. Mitchell, educator, Journalism/Mass Communications Instructor/Community Outreach Specialist/TV Producer & Host * Steve LaFlame, union liaison * Col. Tim Donohue, 88th Mission Support Group Commander, Wright-Patterson AFB * Richard Haas, president, Grandview/Southview Hospital System ∑ Rev. Wilburt Shanklin, Living Word of Faith Church Then there is a blog post and follow-up comments by Esrati and his friend and political ally Greg Hunter critical of the picks, plus the usual peanut gallery of Esrati commentators Leitzells First Folly My opinion is that this is at least a good idea. I am familiar with ISUS and they have been doing a good job building houses as a vocational training program for high-school age kids as a charter school. So a good pick there.

^ My opinion is to go back to a ward system, or district elections. They have those in San Francisco and Louisville, and they give more power and representation to neighborhoods and communities. In a way the Priority Board system was intended to do this, but they dont hold true power the way an alderman would.

There is a post about his win here. We could talk more about him there. @@@ For me Walnut Hills is sort of a melancholy place. That moodyness might show up in these snapshots. At first I wished it to be a Highlands or Germantown, but it's not that way. Then I saw it more as a Chicago place, Cragin on hills, but it's not that either. I first explored it when I first moved here, when Dayton was still a soft city for me. The mix of light, street angles, and ascending eleveation left an impression or mood on me of a possibility that I could never catch again in return visits. Almost like remembering a dream of a place, that is famililar but not as in reality, yet the impression I got was real. So I return to Walnut Hills with this melancholy sense of memory, a sense of dis-enchantment. I hope this doesn't sound too nutty.

^ Husted is setting up the rationale for the GOP to pull the plug on the operating subsidy after a "decent interval". This is, I think, going to be the 'demonstration project' since they are building the line from scratch, or at least a part of it, since the article talks about new tracks. This makes sense form a PR point of view since Orlando gets a lot of tourists to Disney, and Tampa/St Petes is also a vacation area (more St Petes and the beaches). So you can see this being marketed in Florida amost as a tourist attraction (such is the novelty of modern train travel in the US).