Jeffery

The report recommends focusing some of the demolition money the city is getting on this area. Some of the things in these pix are already down.

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Some of this is gone. The housing project is gone. Goodys is gone. And the entire area between Warren and Main (vicinity of the Rescue Mission) is slated to be demolished and re-subdivided into large lots to permit office building construction. There is some talk about saving Marvin Gardens.

I like the part about "quietly aquiring the property". Don't want to: a) alarm the residents b) raise property values as absentee owners hold out for more $$$

Well, it’s official. The plan is to totally destroy "Lower South Park" and replace it with…patio homes? As part of the housing component of a downtown planning effort the local redevelopment quango Citywide Development Corporation offered their “Midpark” plan for the area between Miami Valley Hospital and Downtown. This was developed by their Neighborhood Development Strategic Planning Group (NDSPGP) which… “…is a volunteer committee created and administered through CWD. NDSPG has been a valuable brain trust of priority board, business, government, and educational leaders and appeared to be a perfect fit to begin looking for the next neighborhood development project. The task of NDSPG over the last 6 months has been to outline a plan for a redevelopment project that could be included within the Greater Downtown Plan and highlighted within the housing section of that plan.” If this is the best and brightest thinking in Dayton when it comes to urban regeneration we are so fucked. The plan has specific recommendations for that “Lower South Park” neighborhood between Warren Street and the park, south of the US 35 expresway. ”The proposed concept for the MidPark neighborhood is a complete demolition (outside of the houses on Buckeye St.), re•plot, and rebuild. For this reason, all land must me acquired and held by a single entity in order to be a viable and attractive site for a developer. A strategy for quietly acquiring property needs to be determined including the roles and responsibilities for the City of Dayton and CityWide Development Corporation as well as potential funding sources. After the demolition of properties within the neighborhood, there will presumably be a need for updated infrastructure. This is an opportunity to have a clean slate to modernize any sewage and water lines if needed, bury utility lines, update lighting, and reconfigure the streets to alter the flow in and out of the area in a manner that better suits the style and design of the new neighborhood. The City of Dayton has a wide varietyof housing options to offer buyers, but lack one style that is becoming increasingly popular – a low maintenance or patio style home. Dayton will continue to lose residents looking for this type of housing to our suburban counterparts if we do start building this product. So there you have it. Clean Slate. Not even the streets would remain. The concept is to replace this quirky little neighborhood with a suburban patio home development. Can you believe this. Have we learned nothing since the wholesale urban renewal clearances of the 1960s? Probably the ultimate comment, an affront to historical references and long memory of placenames, is the suggestion to re-name Warren Street Brown Street since the current street names are “too confusing”. Warren was called that since pioneer times since it went toward Warren County. Brown Street used to go "through" to the Oregon. But it's all too confusing for modern Daytonians. Just wow.

You don’t hear many news stories about what happens after the unemployment runs out. The stories usually end with a happy ending; the unemployed worker finds a job. Or the story cuts off while worker is on his or her last legs and is selling stuff to pay the bills. The readers or viewers are spared the grim bitter end. I’d wish there was some long term reporting on this, tracking a group of workers who lose their jobs, fall off the economic cliff, and then see how they land or where they end up. That would be the real story behind the so-called “declining” unemployment rates. (Oh, by the way, for C-Dawg, I just saw Michael Moore’s “Capitalism a Love Story”, and your Marcy Kaptur is prominently featured in the movie).

Bingo. This is exactley why the economic development argument is superficial...or at best localized and limited. It's the difference between economic activity that exports goods and services and brings money into the state and local economies....in other words, baking a bigger pie....vs reslicing the pie. The way the casinos can add to the pie is if they can induce increased spending on entertainment, in other words if people reallocate more money from their household budgets to entertainment. Another way if they can generate a substantial amount of out-of-state gamblers to come to Ohio...gambling tourism.

I agree, and that is why I say the only real benefit for Ohio as a whole is the revenue/tax angle. The economic benefit will be quite localized, in the specfic neighborhood around the casino.

^ I think the issue with redistribution would only be the case if there are more people going gambling when the casino opens. Based on the Indiana average you would be looking at 1,200 new jobs. Some of these jobs are new since the casino is recapturing some gambling going to indiana, some might be a redistribution within the local entertainment economy if the casinos draw a higher % of the entertainment dollar by developing substantial new customer base. The assumption here is that a casino in OTR ( I assume this is where its going to go, since thats where Redmond is active in real estate) will lead to the Greektown effect, where the streets around the Greektown casino are pretty busy, with the area becoming downtown Detroits main nightlife/restaurant area. Might work. Myabe you all can get a bunch of German themed stuff instead of Greek stuff to locate across the street from the casino (to go along with the OTR history)

I read some of the housing stuff and the "Midpark" plan by Citywide seems like updated 1960s-style urban renewal. The plan is for the areas between South Park and Miami Valley and the US 35 freeway, say along Warren and Main Streets, but also the area between Burns and US 35. They plan on demolishing the neighborhoods that are still there (the few streets left), rearrange the street system and parcelization to make it more developable, turn on part of the district into "mixed use" ( medical offices + some retail) and the other into suburban patio homes (though they mention considering saving Marvin Gardens and maybe some of the housing on Warren.). They also recommend changing the name of Warren to Brown since the current setup is "confusing". I am thinking what they will end up with is something like what happened at Hills & Dales, a suburban office park with sidewalks.

I plan on coming down more often to walk the neighborhood. I wan't much on Vine this time around. so that's next. I'm also thinking of catching a show a that Know Theatre if they have one that sounds interesting. I am going to spend more time this year in Cincy for performing arts things. The blocks on Race facing the park will be primo addresses when they are renovated. From what I know of Chicago and Louisville park frontage always commands a higher rent or sales price (probably the same all over).

Thanks for those corrections, Rando. Those are the ones I am referring to.

This is a privatley funded planning effort with city input. Sort of a public/privte partnership to do strategic planning for downtown. A particpant is Bill Pote, host of the Dayton Most Metro website & forum. Here is a cut & paste from his remarks at DMM As most of you know, a group of business and city leaders spearheaded by Dr. Mike Ervin got together late last year to organize a huge effort to bring together stakeholders from the business, government, organization and institution communities in order to develop a new master plan for the entire Downtown Dayton area. Called the Greater Downtown Dayton Plan and based on a foundation of Guiding Principals, the first phase included gathering as much public input as possible using various townhall sessions as well as the DMM Forum (click here for links to all of those conversations) or here for a summary. After that initial round of public input that consisted of ideas across the board from anybody and everybody that gave them, sub-committees were formed to take those ideas as well as whatever expertise each committee member brought with them and draft detailed plan recommendations. These sub-committees were chaired by leaders in each respective topic field and included various staff from appropriate organizations as well as citizen volunteers. These draft plans are now being released to the public (each plan has its own discussion thread here on this forum board) and four public studio sessions have been scheduled at "Plan Central" located at 8 N. Main Street (former CVS): Saturday, Oct. 3 - 9 a.m to 1 p.m. Monday, Oct 5 - 11:30 a.m. to 3 p.m. & 5 to 8:30 p.m. Tuesday, Oct 6 - 7:30 to 11 a.m. I highly recommend you attend one of these studio sessions as this will be your first chance to really see these exciting plans up close and talk to the people responsible for drafting them AS WELL AS implementing them. The public will have a say in setting the priorities based on available resources, and the Funding Committee will begin working on identifying public AND private funding sources for the various plans. I'll be posting the various draft plans here on this forum board for online discussion over the next several days, so please come back often to see new posted plans and get involved with the conversation. This is a transformational effort unlike anything ever seen in Dayton, and while everything won't be feasible (at least right away), many of these things will definitely be implemented. Be a part of the process by adding your input here on the DMM Forum! ....and links to intro posts to the draft component plans: Arts, Entertainment, & Culture Transportation River Corridor & Active Lifestyles Housing Green & Sustainable

Are 21cs expansions adaptive re-use like the Louisville hotel, or do they have some new ones? I agree that the Metropole isn’t a big deal negative impact on the Aranoff neighborhood. That seems to be one of the hotter areas of downtown, and you barely notice the hotel and its residents. Yet I can see the logic of having a hotel directly across the street from the Aranoff (and next door to MOCA). The market (not the only market) would be cultural tourism, for example people coming to Cincy for shows at the Aranoff, combining it with a visit to MOCA as a weekend visit. People willing to spend on performing arts tickets are already probably affluent enough to afford a room at a boutque hotel.

This would be the block of Vine with the Kroger. They are getting closer to Liberty. Based on this thread I figured this lower part of OTR was gentrified enough to actually get out of the car and walk around in. So I went there today and walked around the neighborhood, mostly the streets between Vine and Main, where that old Catholic church is at...Walnut Street and the smaller streets paralleling it. Had coffee at that coffee shop & roastery on Central Parkway (and saw a postcard for a photo show at the Betts House featuring Sherman who posts here) . Also noticed that Know Theatre, which might be interesting to visit one of these days. You can see how the area is changing. Still a lot of scary/poor black people around, but its becoming more white, mix of hipster/yuppie types. And seeing the new renovations creeping up north from Central. Yet it's interesting to see how there appeared to be already a lot of infill or new construction from maybe years ago on these eastern blocks, sort of in a townhouse style to fit in with the neighborhood. Not sure if that is market rate or a mix of subsidized and market rate. I'm wondering if the plan is to work on the Vine/Walnut/Main corridor first, and the move to the Race/Washington Park area next, because Race didn't seem to be getting this redevelopment to the same degree Vine has been.

A final bump. Ironically, for all the bumps, I wont be attending, as I have tickets to the philharomic for Beethovens 9th tonight. More than rock music in Dayton.

^ yeah but people do that all the time. And in political issues its an aggregate of personal feelings or opinions. Or something like that.

I dont think you read what I wrote. I said these casinos won't help Dayton.

^ It wont help Dayton either. For me this issue is like gay marriage is for straight people. They can't find a rational reason to oppose it but it doesn't seem "right". It's the same for me for casino gambling. In a way this gambling stuff is a lot like homosexuality, the mainstreaming and normalizing what used to be considered immoral or a vice.

For some regional comparisons here are metro area poverty rates for 2008, same census source as the list in the thread header. Highest % in poverty to lowers. 17.7% Huntington/Ashland 15.8% Youngstown 15.8% Toledo 14.9% Lexington 14.2% Gary/Hammond 13.2% Cleveland 12.8% Dayton 12.8% Louisville 12.7% Columbus 12.1% Akron 12.0% Canton 11.5% Indianapolis 11.3% Cincinnati 10.6% Fort Wayne ...as you can see there is a big discrepancy between core city poverty vs metro povery for some of these places. Cincy: 25% core city poverty, vs a 11.%% metro area poverty. The core city rate is double the metro area rate.

The Dayton City Paper reports these non-Datyon bands playing. The festival organizers want to bring more out-of-town talent into the event. Cicny bands: Buffalo Killers (festival headliner, playing at Gillys, which is the largest venue) Frontier Folk Nebraska Lions Rampant Eat Sugar Seedy Seeds Louisville band: Lucky Pinneapple Chicago band (originally from Dayton): Hopstial Garden

A Brookings policy wonk writing in TNR opines on long term unemployment : http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-avenue/where-are-the-long-term-unemployed]Where are the Long Term Unemployed[/url] Apparently in the Big Valley, on the Great Lakes shores, and way down south in Dixie. The article closes with this: Some experts are beginning to talk about the need for subsidized employment to get disconnected workers reattached to the labor market in what may be a long economic recovery. Reasonable people disagree about the potential effectiveness of such programs, but the debate on how to help these workers is certainly a worthwhile one. A diverse group--regionally, demographically, and politically--of U.S. metro areas looks to have a stake in that evolving discussion.

yeah, and 30 years ago was pretty bleak times. When I was putting that post together I was thinking that those lyrics sort of fit the place. The industrial Miami Valley. Substitute Armco Company for Johnstown Company, etc.

It's all good in Urban Ohio. Even the poverty.

You could use metro areas but the same pissing contest would arise about how to define metros or defining metro boundaries creativley to pad or distort stats. They do that here in Dayton by taking in Springfield and some northern counties to inflate the pop figures. I think Grand Rapids does the same with Muskegeon. Yet metro numbers are still more realistic as they are somewhat based on a regional economy, using commuting patterns, I think. if you use metro numbers you'd get something maybe like Louisville or Indy stats, say 16% or so in poverty.