Michael L. Redmond

Much of the city vs suburbs isn't the denial that we have great suburbs here, we do. But we also have a great city that has been neglected by many of the suburbs who, because they are also part of Hamilton County, can shoot down things here that would help the city. One such issue would be the jail. It was desperately needed here in the city but was at the mercy of the county. The reason that we do not have this jail is because of many of the suburban people that voted it down, and issues like that can create some animosity with us who are here left without both a jail and we had sheriffs pulled from us at the same time. This is not small town thinking, it is big county politics. Absolutely! "You could call Mount Adams the city’s original suburb" and I could call Cincy Mag Cincinnati's most trusted historical source, and I to would be wrong.

If we stop pushing, you may not want what grows organically because it could go in any direction. It could become plasma centers, temp agencies, homeless showers, store front churches, quick stop shops like Jordans, or just empty store fronts. For the past decade this is what has grown organically on Main and that is much different from the previous decade when an entertainment dist was being pushed. Without some framework to work in it will be a crap shoot. Main is to important to leave to chance. I am not pushing for anything in the club red location. Kathleen Norris is pushing for a grocery store. My point is, lets revisit this discussion in one year, without any influence from me, and see what goes into the space. I would love to see a grocer, but would a grocer be willing? I say no but in 1 year who knows, perhaps I will be proven wrong. There is a difference between simply wanting something and it making sence for both parties involved. It makes perfect sense for you and I but what grocer does it work for? If you can answer that then I will be the first to put in the call. I still say that by focusing only on the tenant, you are bypassing a part of the equation that is vital, the landlord. Lets deal with them first and create of structure of stability and uniformity, then we can focus on the tenants based on an agreed upon mix. To simply say I want a ________ without taking into consideration the whole, we are band-aiding an area that is on life support. Lets fix the underlying problems and deficiencies.

To not theorize about motivation and simply taking the proposal at face value and subscribing to the popular opinion that this it was designed as a kill is group think. We did the opposite.

I agree. It isn't rocket surgery. Main just needs some structure....a plan.

Max, parking down the street for a grocery store that is not owned by the the grocery store? If it was all part of the deal, then perhaps and adjacent lot would be acceptable but it is not. I am not saying it isn't acceptable to me to pay for parking everytime I went to the grocery, but I am saying that the grocery itself would balk. I will have to look at the dock, can you get a 52' trailer in there? Also you have frontage to a side street. If I put some thought into it I can give many more reasons but the proof is in the fact that no grocer is considering it. But in a year from now, we will readdress this and I may be proven to be wrong, but we will see. Jimmy James, These really aren't my ideas. The only original thing about it is the application to Main St but this is done everyday and is done very successfully. We should adopt some of these practices and perhaps then we will get some of the same results.

Then we are back to the question, what else do you fit into a space like Red, Ocho, or The Exchange that are huge spaces with existing liquor lic. on them? I hear people all the time that should no better that we can put a grocery store in the space, but when you look at the specifics of the space, the parking and as hohum said the loading docs just aren't there and no grocer would consider it and I think that is demonstrated by the fact no grocer is or has considered it. I am of the mindset that we can work with what we have but within a different framework, a different way of thinking when it comes to filling the spaces and that would eventually effect the associated problems and have remedies if and when they do happen. In my opinion, it starts with the landlords.

Main St. Update.... The shots were fired at 13th at Broadway and the confrontation with the police happened near Pitifuls, but had nothing to do with Pitifuls. One of the suspects approached a police officer with hands in pocket and refused to remove them so a warning shot was fired. 2 other suspects involved in the first incident escaped.

One other thing that is an interim step in what we have been talking about about vacancies that also is a "mall" concept is a zero vacant store front policy. Either give away or lease for very little the store front display space to advertise other businesses that are up and running in OTR. This supports other businesses of OTR or even the CBD and gives the appearance to people walking or driving by that there is activity, even in a non active space. The chamber could even spearhead this by doing full window sized posters that promote the businesses and have lease and contact information for each space as well. This would help the chamber as well in getting their name out there. Gateway needs to be doing this also especially as more and more space comes available. It gives a different impression of supply to those who will eventually demand.

If it happened outside of Pitifuls, I guarantee it did not come from inside Pitifuls. Bob has no tolerance for this sort of thing. This sounds like Pitifuls was just the easy and unfortunate landmark.

I completely agree with that assessment. The problem is getting landlords to look beyond the lease and look at the mix. I think the only way to do that is if they agree to work together.

There is that, and where are they drawing their patrons from. I know Chicago on Rush Street it is a makeup of a lot of tourist. That would also be the case with most CBD entertainment dist. but I know for a fact that hotel concierges discourage people from going to Main. Does this feed the problem? Perhaps in part.

I agree but what does that mean? Is it less clubs overall or a smaller percentage in which case we can dilute the existing club space with additional bar/restraunt venues? This to could be an agreement worked out between Stough, Schneider and Ross that X is the mix of Bars to clubs we are looking for. What is the mix of 4th street live in Louiville?

I have no doubt that we would not get complete by in. However there could be benefits to joining into the "association" the same way that you would have benefits to joining the chamber. Legal help including lease structure and lease enforcement could be one.

I think that one of the answers lies with the landlords. Treat Main Street like a mall, one big outdoor mall whereas it is recognized in the leases that either the positive or negative aspects of any one location directly impacts the other spaces as well. Main needs to adopt a single lease and have verbiage that states consequences for mishaps like last night that may include rent escalators or even termination if it continues to happen. There also needs to be an association that is forced by the lease to all leaseholders that pays for additional policing and the bars should certainly pay more but every single place benefits from this so everyone should pay some portion. Call it one big CAM of sorts. When the thinking goes from looking at one space to all of Main working together, a lot of problems could be solved contractually.

that was exactly the reason that Club Red stated they wanted to locate in that spot and why the Ritz was looking at it as well and is located where they are now. They want a level of separation from anyone who would care enough to complain. Go to an area that no one cares about, that is dead and where the police are trying to contain, not eliminate problems. That was OTR and it is Bond Hill but now that is changing here and now these stories are becoming more and more rare.

I would have said DV8 but I'm old. Take that space, the Clau space, the Club Red space. What else could realistically go there? A grocery store? It just isn't going to happen, it sounds good but it will not happen. Parking alone kills you with every single prospect.

Do you mean the other vacancies that are currently there? Vacancies beget vacancies and if we say that this is at least part of the problem then the solution is not to take down clubs, but bring in other venues (not just clubs) to the immediate area. And this is happening. The other problem has been bad operators. From Red Cheatah, to Club Red, to Ocho Rios and Club Dream, three of them had one thing in common, the landlord. Steve Ross no longer lives in Cincinnati and lives in Indianapolis. Does some of this fall on him? He has now resigned the same owner of Ocho Rios who had the first murder of the year to reopen under a different name in the same location. I do not know what the answer is.

I am trying to find out right now what the details are. How is it that we can have clubs in the CBD, Mt. Adams, Mt. Lookout, and Newport on the Levee and have little to no problems? Why is OTR a problem club spot, and I am asking not because it isn't, I am asking because I truly do not know. My problem with having the 12th St not an entertainment dist is that what else do you put into those spots? And I mean realistically put in them, with space as big as it is and liquor lic sitting on them as well. A vacant block will draw just as much trouble.

I would drive by it, see what you think. I believe it is 13th and Sycamore.

go to mycityliving.com, this is the Comey City Offices site and gives you access to the MLS. And remember, just because it isn't listed does not necessarily mean it is not for sale. If a building catches your eye, let me know and I may know something about it.

The problem with Wash park as you go up especially Elm is that they are primarily larger buildings. Not to say there isn't something in the mix, especially on a cross street. Would you consider Sycamore? There are two very cool buildings over there....and I can not think of the cross st....perhaps 13th and Sycamore. One is smaller and has a mansard roof. I do not know if they will seperate the buildings or not, I kinda think they will at this point, but I would look at them. I haven't pulled the listing in a while and I do not know what the list is but I will look for you tonight.

That is a bit of a loaded question. Generally speaking, the less you pay on the acquisition the more you pay on the improvements. You could spend anywhere from 30,000 to 130,000 depending on the condition and the area plus the situation that the seller is in. I can point you to some buidlings in particular if you narrow it down a bit. The streetcar line will also run through Schwartz Point and I know there are some great deals there and I think this is also one of the most unique places in OTR. But on the other hand it may be a while before others make an investment in the area but if you can wait it out, I would at least look at it.

I know of many that are available. Where are you looking and how much?

Well it is coming to parts of Vine beginning this year and at Vernon corner at Liberty and Main is already under const with a bump out and a whole new design to the street layout at this intersection which includes Main, McMicken, and E. Clifton.

Trinity flats will be at 14th and Vine. Much of the boarded up buildings south of Liberty are already owned by 3CDC and it is just a matter of time. I actually think that the tear down rate south of liberty will slow but north of Liberty is at risk.