Michael L. Redmond

To simple. You are assuming that this whole idea came just from her. I would ask who is really pulling the strings?

Sarcasm doesn't come across well online. I am saying that Randy, John and many others will "need to know what Qualls wants" so we can get a streetcar. As far as my age, I feel a lot older than I am but dealing with this city will make you a bit jaded and a whole lot older.

You are so easy. :wink: A streetcar for starters and we are relying on people like yourself to provide us with one. I am trying to point out some issues to you that you will, and are already being faced with.

Randy, Answer number 3 first and then you can figure out the rest. And no one to tell you how to get it through the city. So here you are. Max, Tell your neighbor Brandon that he needs to pay for the demo from where his building collapsed due to neglect(and the fire and police bill as well while our street was closed because we had a building sitting in it). I still like you Max, we downtowners need to stick together!

I am normally in a thread a lot longer before I begin quoting myself.... and here you have it.... Randy, You are misunderstanding me completely. I am asking how prepared are you? I have seen this same process in projects that I have been working on to try and get funding as well. What was your reaction to this when you first read it? "How could she do this" The question is not how but why. It is a route issue, guaranteed, plain and simple. now try and answer these questions again...

It reeks of politics, It reeks of reality, It reeks of the way things are so just be prepared. As I said many many times on here, if you think you have all your ducks in a row and are confident in your arguments, then don't even give this any more thought. Go to bed early tonight and foget all this stuff if you want to sit back and rely on what you have.

1st, where, 2nd, is it feasible, 3rd, who else would be influencing her to change routes and how does that go back to #1 Answer, it is a red herring. But negotiations are now open and she will give, and so will you. The only question is what is she looking for? It isn't in the proposal, it is in the negotiated settlement. And I would be willing to bet she has thought it through to this point already. She knows what she is doing. You are at a real disadvantage, you were caught off guard. Why would she want this?

No! Ya don't say. See, I feel that I have already helped here. Know what you are arguing and know what they will be arguing back to you. Experts? HAH! Yeah, they fired him.

Great! Whats her plan? What is the proposed route? I think I have read the same thing as you have, what information do you have to argue against or is everyone going to do it on the fly? Well that isn't the point of the people you are arguing against from what I just read. And no, I have written a page or two now about how my map would be different as I would consider myself an 'expert' (whatever that means) in economic and community development especially as it pertains to OTR. I am glad you think so.

I would say that the fact that you and everyone here.... A streetcar can not be successful if there is no streetcar. You have a competing plan, what are you going to do about it. Just say, I expected more, I am so disapointed? That doesn't overcome the competing plan, that doesn't get you a streetcar any faster, that doesn't get you anywhere. So what is their answer to this? We had better study it then before we sink 100 mil into anything. You know the city hired an EXPERT for Main once or twice as well. Don't hang your hat on an 'expert' opinion.

What is that route? I am most disheartened that it was seen as unexpected. I said right from the beginning that I didn't understand and can someone make a compelling argument to me. I am more worried about the lack of understanding of how the individuals that are making the funding decisions works. This is about politics as much as transportation, no, let me correct myself, it is more about politics then transportation. I haven't been successful in presenting my arguments that very well may be the same arguments of people you are trying to convince, and vice versa. What does that equate to? Funding? A streetcar? I am trying to present some realities to you so this thing can be funded. Take it or leave it, I am just one person.

I understand that it does do that although I may not have specifically expressed it. Without that little turn then I would not be hesitant, I would flat out disagree. Still, in my mind, knowing the neighborhood, knowing what is what, where is where and putting all things together, I just have a hard time with that turn up Race and Elm. If you gave me a blank map and asked me to draw a route that accomplished the linking of downtown to uptown, create the greatest economic impact, and effectively moved people from 1 community to the next and within the same community as well, this just isn't the map I would have drawn. That being said, if you believe in it, then sell it. But why are these proposal changes coming in now? Experts be damned. What do you gleam from this? I am trying to help here, it may be painful, but hopefully it will be helpful.

Yes it will. I don't particularly care so much about CBD although I could make an argument for flip flopping the CBD and OTR routes as it effectively misses the largest collection of residential but what does that matter? I agree, hitting as many points as possible is key, and if you think taking it up the route of Race and Elm does that, then you know something I do not. Go for it! 3CDC preferences, anyone, anyone at all?

And my bottom line is to get the funding, these questions will have to be answered. If you feel like these are the answers to questions that many who are controlling those funds or have some influence are asking, then lets give it a shot. You may not have my understanding or agreement, but you do have my support. Any answer to that 3CDC question?

well if you can effectively argue that this is best for the "whole" community then good luck, we are all counting on you. Once again, if you feel that a western loaded initiative is best for the whole community and the only viable option then ok, have at it. Has 3CDC made known its preferences? If so, what was it?

Well then push it through then. If this is the best argument that we have, then ok, so be it.

Trust me when I say I know where the development is taking place and who and where (and why) are considering future redevelopment. I am simply asking someone give me a compelling argument for side loading the neighborhood. Perhaps others on here are satisfied, especially those who have interest along the proposed route, but I just have a hard time seeing this as the most beneficial route. But who am I?

So Vine? I cannot support any route that is only focused on just ____________ (fill in the blank). I do not want it only for Main, not only for Findlay, I want it to be only a block or so from Main, from Gateway, from Wash Park, from the Art Academy, or from Music Hall etc. What route can put you just "a block or so" from all of these?

Vs hard to convert warehouse spaces? What does this map say about the Vine route then? I am willing to just say I don't get it, I don't understand. If I wanted to help all of OTR, this isn't the route I would take--If I only wanted to help the Brewery Dist than sure. But to me, this makes little sense. If this is truly the case, then why has the east developed faster than the west? Is the Brewery Dist only hope a streetcar? And if it is and the streetcar doesn't happen (heaven forbid) then what are you left with as an argument to attract future dev? :drunk: We're Flat! :drunk: is not an affective slogan for the Brewery Dist. One more thing, look at the map again, forget the colors, just the route. How does pulling everything over to only 1 side help the circulation of OTR? How does that help Sycamore, Main, Walnut, Vine, Mulberry, Peete, E. Clifton, E McMicken any of Penleton, the art acadamy, Ent. Dist etc? How are they benefited by 'circulation'? And on the flip side, how does the streetcar benefit from any of the riders that could come from these areas? What is the average walking dist someone will go to get on the streetcar?

I could debate economic development differences all day as well, plus the circulation argument is more beneficial to the east than the west. Everything on the West has limited operation. Whether it is Music Hall or Findlay. And those are big, but still only 2 points of interest. Main has multiple with longer hours of operation therefor greater impact.

The McMicken route, although benefiting me personally is the only hold up I see. In that route, why not bring it up Main and then do the connection from there. I see the biggest holdup being money, I could be wrong, but this usually is the one thing that will push a project back. Longer route=more money. KISS principle should be applied here, in my opinion. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. We are fortunate that the straight line runs through the heart of OTR, Vine. Just consider me a devil's advocate here. You say neighborhood circulator, I say neighborhoods circulator. I don't think we can justify this in saying it is easier to get from Race to Elm within OTR, but it is easier to get from CBD to OTR to Uptown. Isn't that the circulation we are looking for? But that hillside has to be tackled at some point right? If your argument was developable land then sure, but that just isn't the case, as a matter of a fact I would say the eastern hillside is by far more developable. Look, I hope no one gets me wrong here, I am not arguing against the streetcar in any way. These are questions that I would like answered before I am asked these very same questions by someone like a Cranley.

http://www.ci.cincinnati.oh.us/city/downloads/city_pdf17771.pdf And I am looking at a closer view of it and it looks like I was right. After seeing it I feel even stronger about the Vine route. This acknowledges that the only route up to uptown is Vine and Race and Elm look cumbersome in the mix.

I will take a look at that. So it was to go up to McMicken and loop back down for the OTR route. The Uptown route would come down Vine, loop up Clifton, with a line running West over to Race to connect the two? I've gotta see it to understand it. Question, if Qualls is proposing to do a straight shot up Vine through OTR, up the hill to uptown, is that a no-go? Isn't that actually less track? Couldn't you get further for less? I do not want to have to plead ignorance, but I am just not getting it.

Once again, I don't disagree. These are not Cranley's questions, they are mine. Can someone tell me what the uptown link is from Race and Elm? How did they come to this conclusion? To me this says not only are we not going to address this now but we will totally dismiss the next step and make no plans ease connection. I am sure I am misunderstanding it, please someone explain. If this is a question I have, then people a lot smarter than I will certainly harp on this and hold you up for a lot longer than just a year or so. So once again, make me a better advocate.

I do not disagree, and I will. But at some point some of these questions have to be answered because when we say to them we want this, they are going to ask the same things I am asking. Make me a better advocate.