Michael L. Redmond

Sounds good, my information was coming from a certain counsil member whos name begins with a T but I will disclose no more about his identity. (ok, he is bald to, but that is all I can say.)

Max, I will take you up on the drink offer, but make mine a long island. (and not a green one either, that is a three mile island) ahh, good times...

I am still drinking on that, its not trash.

Do you see trash? I don't see trash. 32 would be a decent price for a 25 footer but these are 30x90 and Maggie Beckmeyer knows the area well enough that I think she may get an offer or two.

Not yet, I will let you know as I hear it.

vacant lots tend not to harbor criminal activity the way that vacant buildings do. And you rarely here a vacant lot described as "blight" The timing of this conversation is interesting in that we had 146 and 148 torn down last summer, both Larry Rhodes buildings on Mulberry. The sign just went up on the lots yesterday for sale. He fought the city for 17 years about the buildings, but is selling the lots now. Then Now Listing # Area SIC Address # 1046553 E01 CI 146 Mulberry St 1046560 E01 CI 148 Mulberry List/Sell $ Acres Lot Dimensions Property Subtype Desc LO Status $48,750 0.064 30x90 Single Family Lot HUFF25 Active $48,750 0.064 30x90 Single Family Lot HUFF25 Active

Well crap! I was trying to be mysterious on the Main Street thread and I guess it is already out. Jump is the site. One of the owners of Vinyl is opening it. The paper is up on the windows, the deal is done.

My point is that even today, people say that 3CDC has asked for no public input-they have. I can not question the language, perhaps he is writing the thesis for english (I wrote one on campaign finance reform and even I can not understand a word I wrote) but I do disagree with some of his observations and assesments of both where OTR is today and where development will be in the future. All that being said, I am happy to see him taking such an intrest in the area and hope he continues to do so. OTR is a case study in potential and frustration. I learned more from his thesis through outside perceptions of OTR than I did in actual facts of OTR but this is very important. People need to be informed about the innerworkings of developments and internal politics so that they can understand that things may not be as they seem from the outside.

JUMP :clap: I can say no more.

Now understand that I am not saying it is a dead project, I am only saying that I have heard that it is in tremendous peril. I can only speak to the particular buildings I mentioned before. Lets take 19 Peete St and 88 Mulberry. They can be fixed, no doubt about it. And if one was to want to sink their life savings into just stabalizing the building, and I am not talking about the restoration only the stabilazation, it could be done. So who is going to step up to the plate to do this? We had a building on Mulberry a couple of years ago colapse into the street. Were we right in not tearing that building down on the outside chance that "right dedicated owner/rehabber/" might eventually come along? They never came. 300 Mulberry is dying right now, and has been for years-, 95 Mulberry's stairs have collapsed and Hummel deamed it unsafe for its workers to do repair work. 19 Peete will fall on its own and due to its location, is a haven for drug dealing and illegal dumping (and is hurting 29 Mulberry just above it). 1632 Main, another Larry Rhodes building- refuses to sale, no roof in the back end, a lentil fell on the sidewalk last year. What do we do when the right owner or rehabber just doesn't come? Do we just sit and watch the building die and hurt the chances for all the buildings around it. When people look to do an investment into a property they tend to look at what is surrounding that investment. How many properties were not rehabbed because of the dead,blighted building next to it with the owner who despite being worth 42 million, is willing to go to jail (multiple times) instead of giving into the demands of the city? If you tell me every building can be saved, then I give you Larry Rhodes. Tell me how to overcome that? 1518 Race, how many people were in line to sink their time and money into the rehab? What would you estimate as the cost to rehab that one building? I have approx 15 shells for sale right this minute, are people beating down my door to get these? And they are in much better shape than 1518. Our inventory is to great relative to the number of potential rehabbers, and these are just the ones that are for sale, some, like Larry Rhodes will not even take that step. It seem the only way to get anyone interested in a building is to announce you are tearing it down. It is a terrible reality that perhaps we need to loose some of these buildings in order to move forward and save others. It is time to realize that every building in OTR will not be saved.

My critism comes from experience with Marge and the Foundation and that experience has turned into frustration and contempt for this organization. If I seem overly harsh towards them, it is not just because of one idea out of the mouth of Marge, but the culmination of a whole series of problems that has been perpetuated in OTR at the hands of this group.

Well I am all for bumper cars, but Ferris wheels? Anyway, it is a bit informative to go back through the thread and read what Marge and residents of Pendleton were saying about 3CDC and the school board months ago and now apply it to where we are today. Put everything together from their proposed lawsuits, media spins about SCPA and their general distrust that they tried to stir up about 3CDC, and it was inevitable that the whole Washington park progress is no further along than it is. But we all need our green space and a school full of luxury condos I guess.

Anyone go to these things? OVER-THE-RHINE - More than 100 people gathered at Memorial Hall on Thursday night to start developing a master plan for an expanded and revitalized Washington Park. OVER-THE-RHINE – A proposed Music Hall garage stirred strong reactions from preservationist groups tonight after details were unveiled for the first time at an Over-the-Rhine community meeting organized by Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC). Big change in Over-the-Rhine starts with small groups. That was the message brought to about 100 supporters and residents of Cincinnati's troubled neighborhood, as they gathered to begin a conversation with the Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation, or 3CDC, about what they would like to see changed or improved there. Staff members of Cincinnati Center City Development Corporation - or 3CDC - explained the plan at Memorial Hall to an audience of about 50 people who included neighborhood and business leaders, residents and other business persons. It is like beating your head against a wall sometimes to get things done down here. It does not matter who you are, or what you plan to do, there is always someone who wants to blame the evil developer.

not that I mean that this is the "border" of OTR but the border for development. And I know that was phrased as if it were directed towards you, but I did mean the author.

I strongly disagree with this. Your thinking is that the border (and correct me if I am wrong here) is Liberty. This is an easily definable natural boundry of OTR. But try looking at the map in a different way. Follow Main St north, past Liberty and west into the brewery dist and then connecting it into Findlay. We see development following this route in both directions, not just in a lineal path from the south to the north on any street OTR. Also, look at the topography. Hillsides=views=redevelopment Look at Prospect Hill, Mulberry, Dorsey etc. This development is pushing downward into Peete and E. Clifton. E. Clifton is in a squeeze play between Lang and Frintz and McMicken will fall when E. Clifton is cleaned up (and CPOP is working on that now). OTR is complicated and development does not just follow the straight lines you have identified. The map showing development seems to be based on the OTR summer tour and what places were showcased in that and somehow this shows all of the concentrated development in Pendleton, oh not true. Drive down 13th and whatever in Pendleton and then drive down Milton, compare and contrast.

I think that was just a response to my poking fun of Marge, not a serious comment.

I generally do not use the icons but this deserves one. :drunk:

SCPA (from what I hear) is at a make it or break it time and the next 60 days will tell the tail. This is why I say that the master plan means nothing. If SCPA goes down, vine st elem. may stay open, Rothenberg I think hits NAI Bergmans sale sheet and Bloom probably will as well. Bloom is just one example of the master plan change, it was also slated for renovation but now is closed. It has been my opinion that Rothenberg could be the saving grace for Main St. if turned into office space. A 67,000 sq ft space that could facilitate between 150-200 employees could do wonders for the lunch time and after work crowd that could support Main. The American Red Cross is looking for 60,000 right now, but the school is not for sale (YET). Personally, I want to see SCPA go through, Rothenberg go up for sale, Vine St./Rothenberg Elementary to stay open, The old SCPA could be the new neighborhood school (instead of Rothenberg). But...this is the world according to Michael, we will have to see how this all plays out. Now to the teardowns. God I love touchy subjects. In our Sector alone, I can think of at least 10 that need to come down. And these are almost undisputable teardowns (although I am sure someone would). 3 on Peete St, 2 on Mulberry, 3 (side by side) on Hust Alley, 1 high on Main (next to the casing company), 2 more on E. Clifton. Ok, that is actually 11, and that is off the top of my head. Now that is one sector, and unless we are just the worst sector for teardown, I feel pretty safe in applying that number into the 4 other sectors. So perhaps 55 instead of 50. Sometimes buildings need to come down. I wish they could all be saved and some would argue that they all can-but at what cost. Already redevelopment in OTR is challenging at best and Jimmy, you did a great job on restoring your building, I am restoring my home right now, but some of these structures are lost. Do not blame me, blame the people who did nothing to these buildings year after year. Blame the Johnny Van Steins, blame the Larry Rhodes of the world, they are the reasons that beutiful buildings like 88 Mulberry are coming down within weeks. But some will argue that these buildings should be saved at any and all cost, OK, I have 11 buildings in the Mulberry/McMicken Sector that I will sell you today.

It never started. All of the construction there has been for Vernon Rader's buildings, never the school. Everyone thinks that the master plan is written in stone, it is not. I do not even believe that Rothenberg will be renovated or even reopened. SCPA? that is in jeapordy as I hear it as well. Pendleton wants to do some arm twisting of the school board to make sure they can keep their park, and it looks like they may get to keep their school as well. I have no fewer than 50 more that needs to be added to that list (and thats not sarcasm)

Thank you, I did not want to appear to always disagree with Max, but I disagree with Max. We have a huge supply of buildings that are in this advanced state of disrepair or worse, and you can buy any of these buildings, save them. Everyone is quick to spend others money, save it yourself.

I would be more than willing to chip in any recourses from Comey Commercial and help in anyway we can. Did you have a space in mind because all of the work needs to be done on the front end and as long as you meet the requirements or can show trends that ultimately will meet their requirements, it can be done. So to answer your question, Yes. plus neighborhood population, special population, resident fit, employee population, business activity, transient population, employee fit, shopper fit, transient fit, competition, cannibalism, drop in features and trade area features.

It was called Macros.

thank you edale. Max, you are causing me to start drinking earlier and earlier, you call it what you will, and I and the rest of the city will do the same and lets call it a day.

turn left onto Goethe, and it will be on your right side (uphill side) of the street. It is still under const. and there is a pallet of bricks sitting in front of it so you can not miss it.

Did you raise this point when Gateway and the American Building or even the Emery were on the downtown tour of living? When they say that downtown is booming with new construction, and downtown is coming back, OTR and West End can piggy back on that as well and vise versa. And to say that OTR is the reason that people do not want to come to the CBD is probably not what you want to say to an OTR resident. I lived in the CBD on 7th and I owned a business there as well and there were a whole myriad of reasons that people did not want to come "downtown" safety wasn't the only one. CBD=CBD but downtown is a bit more arbitrary as is urban. And why is it the Comey Shepherd City Office? they are all city offices! but I digress...