voyager654321

http://www.ajc.com/business/ohio-s-pain-is-321987.html Haven't posted here in a while, but I thought you all might want to see this (somewhat arrogant) article about Atlanta stealing Ohio's companies. Personally, I find the AJC newspaper acts as the PR department of the Metro Atlanta Chamber (the chief instigator of the City's company-poaching operations).

I am considering a move to the Gateway quarter. Why is the Gateway I building considered junk?

This is true. However, NY (and to a lesser extent LA, Chicago, and DC) are in unique situations. These major cities have been built into financial, art, tourism, etc "capitals" of the world. Some companies in those industries get a huge return just by locating in or near the city. Most other cities in the US do not have this luxury, so replicating the high tax, high infrastructure or service will not work. It's not working in NY or California now - as those states have the biggest budget deficits. Even when times were good, money was tight in those states. Ohio has both relatively high taxes and relatively low services/infrastructure. This is a bad combination. I disagree with the first part, but I agree to some extent with the second part. The Midwest needs a competitive advantage. Its mid size cities can't complete to be an alternative NY or Chicago. But they can compete to be a good alternative to cities like Atlanta and Charlotte. The first step to increase population (of all types) is to draw employment. This is why it is imperative to keep taxes low in order to attract those companies who do not need to be located in a high-tax area, like New York. Keeping taxes consistently low would substantially reduce the effectiveness of incentive programs, such as the incentive program that lured NCR away. Simultaneously, steadily rebuild the "urban core". Focus on what can make a city unique - the OTR renewal and the Banks in Cincinnati are great examples for that city. Public transportation generally fosters this goal as well. Lastly - market the cities better!

My point about the Governor's Cup is that the projects that they measure are simply not as valuable as Corporate HQ projects. Their website indicates the vast majority of projects on their list are related to manufacturing and/or distribution. We may have to agree to disagree on this. Regarding NCR coming back to Dayton, I think that's a near zero chance. They're selling their building and intend to maintain only a sales office and data center. Bill Nuti said there would be less than 50 people in Dayton. I'd guess they have field offices in other cities that will be larger than Dayton's. I'm not aware of any Middle Eastern companies setting up in the region. I have heard that Tata (a major Indian company) is intending to open a facility north of Cincinnati, but that's all I've heard. Regarding the thousands of unemployed in Atlanta that you refer to, I dont have any idea what you're talking about. All of the companies that you mentioned are still based in Atlanta. They simply have a corporate parent. They're still in the city employing more or less the same as they had before. Where are you getting your data from? Some posts have indicated the Atlanta move as a "Ponzi" scheme. I dont agree with this thinking. Georgia has said that the net of tax revenues from NCR will exceed the tax breaks. So the state is providing a huge incentive program and the state of GA is still making money on the deal! Unfortunately the situation in Dayton appears more to resemble a Ponzi scheme. With a major loss of tax base, who will pay the bills in Dayton? I dont think there's any way to put lipstick on this pig. The NCR move is bad for Dayton and Ohio. But we need to move past this as soon as possible. As I mentioned in my first post, Ohio's cities should focus on the fundamentals - dont lose any more HQ, lower business & personal taxes, build on their strengths, and market themselves better. The best way to stop this "poaching" is to lower the tax rates. Lower tax rates in Ohio would reduce the success rate of incentive programs, such as those in Georgia. I'll also add two other thoughts: It seems that Ohio's cities don't act in the best interests of their region. Each level of government and municipality seems to look out for themselves. If the cities acted regionally, and showcased the regions' strengths, I think that would be huge. Second - why doesn't the state provide some type of incentives for the NCR workers to stay in Ohio? Specifically, offer an incentive for former NCR (or any other) workers who start a small business. Keep the talent in the region. We don't need to make it easy for NCR!

BBC - you are right that some ATL based companies have been purchased by a larger parent company (AT&T bought Bell South, Koch Industries bought G-P, Cisco bought Scientific Atlanta). However, all of the subsidiary HQs are still based in Atlanta. From an employment standpoint it appears that - aside from some behind the scenes jobs - the employment base hasn't changed substantially. In other words, even though those companies were acquired, the parent companies did not run away from Atlanta. At the same time, a number of mid-size and large firms have moved their HQ to ATL. Just a couple of months ago, a $1 BN firm, Gentiva of Long Island, NY announced they were moving to Atlanta. I'm not aware of any mid-to-large companies that have moved headquarters to Ohio recently. Regarding the Governor's Cup link, my understanding of that award is that it is based the number of any type of facility or other operation constructed in a given metro area. These projects are important, but not as important as corporate headquarters. HQ provide substantial tax revenue via substantially higher paid people, support for the community (Arts, schools, etc), potential high-rise buildings, and the somewhat intangible "cache" and credibility (the HQ city name on products, TV, newspapers, etc). The Gov Cup projects, I believe, mostly provide normal manufacturing/distribution type jobs, that probably pay $30-40 K. These are good, important jobs, but the NCR jobs are better from a government revenue standpoint. NCR is a dying company - no disagreement there - but even NCR was able to offer 1,200 jobs paying nearly $80 K each. Highly paid professionals provide tax revenue which allows the city to re-invest in infrastructure and services, which creates a positive feedback loop. The killer part about NCR is that Georgia will actually make money on the deal (the tax on the NCR guaranteed jobs will exceed the tax incentive). From a Georgia taxpayer standpoint, it's a win-win for them. From our standpoint, it sucks.

<rant> I've been following corp hq changes in Ohio & Georgia, and specifically Cincinnati & Atlanta. Over the past few years Ohio has lost many HQ due to mergers - Cleveland lost National City (to PNC in Pittsburgh), Columbus lost Wendy's (to Arby's in Atlanta), Cincinnati lost Cinergy (to Duke Energy in Charlotte). On the plus side, Cincinnati, at least, has picked up some HQ operations via P&G merger with Gillette (Boston), FirstGroup (NA HQ beat Dallas & Chicago), and Macy's merged with May Dept Stores (Boston). What really stinks about this is that NCR is voluntarily picking up and moving. Things must have been desperate. While I agree that if NCR was located in Cincinnati/Columbus/Cleveland this may not have happened, NCR decided to exit the entire state, which indicates larger problems. Versus metro Atlanta, Ohio has substantial disadvantages. Ohio's personal and business taxes are higher. Ohio is generally less business friendly. Many people would say the weather is better in the South. Atlanta, while not a cosmopolitan mecca, appears to have more cache than any of Ohio's cities. Ohio state needs to be more pro-business. Like it or not, large businesses provide many people good, well paying jobs. They spur smaller businesses to be located nearby. It's popular to blame "business" for the world's problems but I think we'd all agree that we dont like to see a business leave. The consistency of lower taxes and fewer regulations will appeal to the business community more than one-time incentive packages. Dayton needs to stop the bleeding and focus on its strengths. Make sure no other larger firms are looking to get out. Build on the strengths of Wright-Patt and the variety of aviation related businesses, museums, and history in the area. Focus on being the country's aviation headquarters. Cincinnati is clearly in better shape than Dayton. For starters, the metro population is growing somewhat. But some of the larger HQ are in jeopardy - Chiquita has looked at Atlanta and Orlando in the past, Fifth-Third is relatively small and would be an easy acquisition target, and Macy's could easily move their back office jobs to an area closer to their main HQ in NY. Cincy (and the other bigger Ohio cities) should take note of some of the challenges that NCR mentioned - recruiting, talent, etc - and try to get ahead of the curve before they become victims of a corporate exodus. Lastly, Ohio and it's cities need to market themselves better. They need POSITIVE news. If there's no positive news, generate some. Mayor Mallory in Cincy has been accused of being too focused on marketing, yet I think that marketing is critical - it may be Cincinnati's biggest problem. Getting Ohio's cities off of the bottom of the Forbes' "Best Places" lists WILL make a difference. Heck, even some winning sports teams would help get some positive news. </end rant> thanks for reading