Map Boy

"Attend this Public Open House to Learn about ODOT's Recommended Alternative for Cleveland's Future Innerbelt." ODOT will be gathering your comments at this meeting and over the coming months about the design detail and the social/environmental/economic impacts of the Cleveland Innerbelt Plan's Recommended Alternative. This will assist ODOT in developing modifications as further analysis is performed and impacts assessed. ODOT is interested in all feedback about the Recommendation. Thursday, November 17, 2005 Open House from 4:30 - 8:30 Presentation at 6:00 CSU's Wolstein Center (formerly the Convocation Center) 2000 Prospect Ave. Cleveland, OH 44115 for more info, visit www.innerbelt.org In addition, the City's Design Review Board will discuss the Innerbelt at 1:30 in City Hall and it will be discussed again at 9am on Friday at the City Planning Commission. Attend one or all of these events and weigh in on the discussion!

how are these things so lost on the ODOT people??? How is it possible for them to approve this so blindly??? rhetorical questions... on a side note, what do we make of Frank Jackson having his election night party at the Greek Orthodox Church in Tremont? I've heard he's not really psyched about the southern alignment because of the assumption that it will take money from the Opportunity Corridor, which he supports. If he'd actually responded to either of my two letters, I might have a better idea of what he was thinking!

call him up! see if you can have a sit down with him! seriously, there are a lot of Cleveland politicos who are into meeting and chatting with constituents and others who care about the City's future. And if you have an inroad, I say use it!

wow, that's big news! I know that this forum represents a really minute sample of Cuyahoga County residents, but this has to be widely disseminated! KJP, you have the means to do it through the WSSN. Stephen Litt is doing his part as architecture critic at the PD. I know I'm planning to go to the meetings next week and voice my opinions as a resident. I really hope more information like this gets out there and people/legislators/etc. come to the best decision!

And NOACA...don't forget the organization whose decision it was to forgo the light rail option altogether!

yes, on the permanence issue, this will have more permanence than a regular bus route. On the other hand, it's already been scaled back from earlier versions of itself, where it was a "trackless trolly," running on overhead wires and apparently now from a double-length articulated bus to just a newer bus with funny looking curves.

^are you talking about the ones north of the CMHA property? I know these were drawn up as something new in the initial drawings from a few years back, but I don't know if they've actually pursued acquiring the properties. It's actually pretty surprising the the private market hasn't made any moves here already. I mean, if I was some small non-profit sitting on a prime piece of land in a dilapidated building and someone offered me more than enough money to move and rehab a better location, I'd take the money! I don't know anything about prior efforts, though, or what is keeping them in that location...

a park would be great and if that's all we can do for the next 30 years due to lack of funds to stabilize the hillside, then by all means, we should do it. but right now, it's a big piece of green space with a fence around it. from what i hear, there are several more rounds of studies that need to be done before cost estimates can be made for future development. cost prohibitive is definitely the term for it, but it's also true that a private developer could find the cost acceptable with a certain type of development on site. I have a feeling that this would include them asking for a big investment by the public sector to help offset the cost of site preparation...much like brownfield cleanup...

Good sleuthing, B12! I've been to a couple meetings in the buildings on the east side of 25th. Transitional Housing Inc. has their offices over there and I believe an affiliate of theirs owns the land and buildings. They could definitely do with a rehab, but I don't know if they're thinking about moving. There's still a ton of land directly adjacent to Riverview that should be put to some productive use...ballfields, viewing plaza, whatever...and a decent amount of land behind them as well along Bridge, closer to the river. Every time I go back there, I think of the tremendous potential of those city-owned parking lots south of Bridge, behind the market, where one component of the recent HOPE VI proposals was shot down by a VERY VOCAL MINORITY. But do those fall into the "danger zone?" I agree that the potential along the west side of 25th might be more promising right now, considering the conditions across the street and I hope they move on it!

It's all broken down and laid out at http://www.conventioncleveland.com/members.html. 11 members: 4 appointed by the City (2 by Mayor, 2 by Council President), 4 appointed by the County Commissioners and 3 by the County Mayors and Managers Assoc.

Not that I'd call KS FJ's "right hand man" just yet, but it's true that KS is a big player as he is already on the CFA and supports the mall site. I will correct my earlier post, by the way, by indicating that the Mayor and Council President have two appointed members each on the CFA, so the dynamic could change, but we likely already know who the future mayor (Jane or Frank) will put on the committee.

Interesting question. He may support that location personally, but it really isn't the Mayor's decision. The Convention Facilities Authority is charged with that task and has members appointed by the Mayor and County (and elsewhere?). Jackson may be able to change the representation in that body if he wins, but that won't necessarily make the difference. Bottom line there is that a lot of facts still need to present themselves before they recommend a site. And from where I sit, I just can't see the facts leading anyone to choose the TC site!

Aside from the argument that casinos and gambling can bring with them all sorts of unwanted social and economic side effects, I think that B12's argument is the most sound one for opposing a Downtown Cleveland casino. As it is, it's tough to convince people that Downtown is more than just a place to spend your 9-5 and maybe hang out for a game or a show. On the weekends, the bars and clubs are overwhelmed with people who don't give a rat's ass about the residents who live upstairs. If we want to bring Downtown's population over the 10,000 mark (not including our neighbors with a view from the Justice Center!), we're going to have to create neighborhoods based around amenities and community, not gambling and night clubs.

yeah, if they had an "outlet" for several major retailers, I'd be down there quite a bit! I've had lots of issues with finding simple things like pots and pans and cutting boards within walking (and transit) distance of my home in Ohio City and if there were some outlet stores that had those sorts of things in TC, I'd be there in a sec! I'm not talking National Wholesale Liquidators or anything...just Williams Sonoma, J Crew, etc. selling things that are just fine at a better price! Also, anyone know those shops in London that have very modest store sizes, but sell things like full kitchen sets and the like. You go in and they have several displays available and catalogs to flip through and then you pick your items and they have them either shipped in the next day from a local warehouse or they pull them out from a very efficient back room. It's a much better use of space than keeping all your stock out on the floor. One I remember was Argos...

PS: on the name "Avenue District"... the way it was described is that it fits in between several of Cleveland's premiere avenues: St. Clair, Rockwell, Superior, Payne, Chester. So, it's a reference to that.

MTS and B12 are right on the money...Tower City has shifted to suit its demographics and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I'd prefer to see Banana Republic and Hugo Boss and all sorts of high-end stuff down there, but realistically, I'd probably never shop there unless they had killer sales racks! One thing that appears to be missing is an Old Navy... If you look at NYC and Brooklyn in particular, the "urban" malls that cater to a more Downtown Cleveland type of population all feature Old Navy. Again, I probably wouldn't shop there, but I'd bet it would do quite well in Tower City.

The other article I was referring to was a basic recap of the great success of the Warehouse District CDC, as well as developers and architects, who have helped reshape the Warehouse District. It's a very positive article about things past, present and future... I don't believe there's a digital edition, but I'd be happy to type up a couple of the highlights. KJP?

and there's a Dave's (currently under renovation, but still open) just two blocks away on Payne!

You still can't beat Downtown for its connections to local banking, legal and municipal headquarters! And the rents are actually lower, on average, than in the suburbs. However, when you add parking to the mix...well, there's your difference. Enter public subsidy!

Picked up a Free Times yesterday and saw this nice ad amongst dozens of others in the real estate pages... Sorry, but I haven't been by the site yet, so I have no pics of my own! I can tell you, though, that there is no visible action at the other site mentioned in this thread on Prospect, east of 9th. Ferchill's Carter Manor (which is much larger) appears to be finishing up (for a pic and more details, visit http://www.dasconstruction.com/projectsunder/cma.htm and http://ferchillgroup.com/news/?nid=10). They've been working on the storefronts in recent days, which leads me to believe that the apartmens must be finished.

what would we have to talk about if not for all the parking lots and tax dollars being spent on highways?

Maybe it's a matter of degrees... it had to get SO bad there before a turnaround was inevitable. I don't know. I'm confident Cleveland will get hers, but aside from what's happening around the Clinic and University Circle, I don't know where it will come from. I feel like we have to grow our own businesses in this (bio-medical) sector before we'll see this kind of growth downtown. On the other hand, it seems that Progressive would be our Rock Financial here in Cleveland and they've got more land out there than they know what to do with...It would be great, though, if they decided to move to the city... Isn't it Peter B. Lewis that wants University Circle to think bigger???

^agreed, the more this project comes to reality, the easier it should be to sell additional units. "Look what we've completed already...yours will be even better!" So, if they succeed at phases 1-4, phase 5 should be the biggest hit yet! Plus, the addition of more retail elements in the old Carnivale building will add to the allure of this new district. As I've said on here before, the connection that phase 5 provides to the rest of the flats should be an instigator of greater things on blocks moving north and east from the Viaduct. Just look at all the potential! I hope property owners down there prove to be more forward thinking than the owners of the lots on the edge of the Warehouse District!

I pass the Condominiums at Stonebridge every day on my way across the Detroit-Superior Bridge and I'm beginning to notice more and more lights coming on at night. Also, on the Viaduct side, there are ten or so "Sold" signs in upper-level windows. I don't know what the hold-up is for people to move in, but it's great to see that these units are moving along. According to an ad in this week's Free Times, all 1-bedroom units are sold out and the entire building is "over 85% sold!" That's hard to believe from what I've seen, but what do I know... There is also a little footer at the bottom, indicating that Stonebridge Plaza (phase 5) will start in the mid-$300's, which is a good $100k higher than the units in the earlier phases. I'd say this is optimistic, but this seems to be a demand-driven development, so again, what do I know?! On a side (but related) note, a local developer recently told me that banks in Cleveland will finance buildings such as this only if they are over 50% presold...as in pre-groundbreaking. I would imagine that's pretty tough to do in the current market and that it could be one of a number of factors that has caused projects like Courthouse Plaza and District Park to be tabled (not dead!). This just makes me more amazed about how the Stonebridge project keeps growing at such a fast pace!

Is this a possible connection to the Towpath Trail? I haven't yet seen the park, though I go past it every day. All I ever see is the steeply sloping parking lot! I'll have to check this out...