Map Boy

After reading some of the critiques from earlier this week, I strolled by the site and will admit that I am very pleased with the structure! I think the opportunity to fill in these retail spaces with some high-end shops...likely national chains...is very exciting and will do wonders for the street life and function of the immediate blocks. The glass and garage structure is nothing notable, but it's also not unattractive (in my opinion)...and of course, the prospect of building on top (up to 28 stories!) is incredible! On the whole, I think the scale and facade are appropriate and will only stand to improve as the retailers fill the huge display windows with shoes, clothing, books, furniture, etc...

I'm not exclusively supporting light rail funding either. I think light rail can be a valuable and effective investment in some cities, specifically along high-density/high-growth corridors, but I'm also supportive of BRT or other transit modes that are less expensive and often more practical. My point is that there are many ways to invest transportation dollars and I think that for far too long the focus in Ohio has been on outward growth and expansion into undeveloped areas where it could be doing much better to serve the population centers that have already been established and promoting development that will be sustainable in the long term. And nowhere in my comments did I attempt to place any blame. In fact, I specifically remember saying something to the effect that "these are my opinions."

From the first post on this thread, it appears that there are many projects going forward that will spend dollars the way that this tax payer wants to see them spent. Now, I understand that's not the way the system works, but when I talk about my concerns, they don't often include highway construction. In fact, I think exorbitant, overextended highway spending is part of the demise of Ohio's population growth. The central urban areas have lost so much of their population because of the willingness of public agencies to support growth in the exurbs, which has left us with much less vibrant and livable cities. One unfortunate result of all this is that we don't have density that warrants rail construction and we certainly don't have population growth or migration patterns that warrant it either. However, as it is very clear that public expenditures drive growth...along highway corridors, transit corridors, etc., I would much rather see my dollars spent on projects that serve existing population centers and foster more dense, sustainable growth in our cities. This is the approach of regions like the Pacific Northwest, where they apparently value their natural surroundings and don't want to see them all developed into subdivisions and shopping malls. Again, I realize that these are my opinions and that they apparently don't reflect the majority opinion in Ohio, but I refuse to accept the "well, move to Portland then" response. I want positive change at home!

Good question...That was my first reaction...that they're probably not going to invest in streetscape stuff just yet, since it'll probably be torn up soon anyways. That, or maybe they'll bring in above-ground planters. Those can be attractive too and can be effective buffers from high volume traffic in active pedestrian areas. I'm anxious to see it!

so, according to the Downtown Cleveland Partnership (http://www.downtownclevelandpartnership.com/development.html), this project is "on hold." What gives??? No updates on the ParkWorks site... I see this as the potential "Bryant Park" of Downtown Cleveland...let's get moving!

Pittsburgh, PA: http://www.gbapgh.org/casestudies_ConventionCenter.asp Completed in 2003 Total Building Square Footage: 1.5 Million square feet • 313¸400 sq.ft. of Exhibit Space (236¸900 sq/ft is column free) • 76¸500 sq.ft. of Secondary Exhibit Space • 31¸610 sq.ft. Spirit of Pittsburgh Ballroom and Regional Showcase Cost: $385 million dollars LEED GOLD CERTIFIED!!! and just 2.5 hours from Cleveland in a car...

anyone check out the Green Energy Ohio site??? www.greenenergyohio.org there are some nice pics on there of this project in the works and also a live webcam from the crib looking towards Downtown Cleveland (http://www.lakenet.net/gcam.hteo/cribm). Fun times!

I, too, am VERY disappointed in the initial drawings for this site. I've had no inspiring ideas of my own, however, so KJP's drawings are refreshing, although potentially heartbraking, considering what the proposal looks like right now... And KJP, you are a treasure trove of amazing vision for Cleveland. Too bad you're not a multi-billoinaire to put these things into effect on your own! I'm curious to hear more about your ideas for this location and what the response was from the City. I see you put this together in 2002...and that you also have quite a few ideas for this area with the realignment of the innerbelt bridge...how do these two play together? This one obviously requires a fair amount of public intervention, but nothing compared to the innerbelt bridge construction! So, what have they said?

so, about these light poles and "phoenix" statue...I recall the light polls and I believe the statue is the tall, colorful, weird looking thing on the corner of Euclid? My first reaction is that I like the light poles and dislike the statue. However, it does draw you in and once the street is kicking on its own, without having to forcibly draw people in, it won't look so strange. It'll just fade into the background...sorta like it already does at night when the corner is hopping with people going to the HoB and PW&F. Portland did something similar throughout its Hoyt Street Yards development. Before buildings were even up or shops inhabited, they dropped these totem poles that were designed by some notable artist. Everyone was looking at them with very critical and disbelieving eyes...but that was, in part, because they were the only thing to look at. A few years later, there are mass amounts of people and the buildings and trees have all grown up and I think people (this is me assuming) have just incorporated them into the landscape, since they've been there all along. Kinda neat how that stuff can happen!

whoa! i forgot for a second that we were talking about E. 12th! Look how lonely the E. 4th Street thread is... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2055.0 (I know how they're related, I'm just being a stickler...)

Ooooh, I love Treehouse! I'm really excited to see what kind of spinoff Battery Park will have...not to mention the development itself.

I'm assuming they're already charging these two linked hotels some sort of fee...I don't understand why the CC would pay for the entireity of it if it will mean significant benefits for these two hotels and not the remainder of Downtown hotels. Sounds like a pretty interesting thing for them to ask us to pay for! As for the restaurant tax, is there one now or is this completely new? What are the chances that county residents would approve this? I'm glad they're not talking about building a new hotel right now, or about closing the I-X center, but this is still a very questionable investment for the City/County...

hmmm...didn't know about the gameworks...I was hoping for more cafe/outdoor seating style stuff and some boutique shops...but I'm just one guy and I don't even live there yet! It would be nice to have some uses that would enliven the street during the day, cause right now, it's dead... but that's another thread!

more housing = more amenity retail = more around-the-clock action downtown = more businesses wanting to be a part of something labeled as "thriving" or "successful" = lower office vacancy rate.

definitely...overlooking Jacobs field and the Gund...at the foot of the Gateway District, East 4th and Euclid Corridor...the views would be relatively unimpeded, since the immediate surroundings are in the 4-6 story range, and the convenience factor would be VERY high. A high profile address, amidst high profile surroundings...let's build it! it's one of the only gaps left in that very dense, bustling area. Of course, I'd be happy if it were a 12 story structure too...you'd hear no complaining outta me!

anyone score browns/bengals tix when they went on sale yesterday??? we got a bunch to the browns/lions game in October! woo hoo!

That East 4th Street parcel was mentioned in a March '05 article about Crocker Park developer Robert Stark wanting to get involved in redeveloping Downtown Cleveland. There's a post on here that covers it: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2591.0

well, isn't that encouraging!

wow, great image! I'm so psyched to see this one get off the ground...perhaps later this year? I know the land sale is slated for this fall...any ideas on when ground will be broken? How many phases? This is hot!

nope, watched 'em both...and they both made me so uncomfortable...to the point that I had just had to start laughing!

great find urbanlife! we've obviously all been losing sleep over that one...or at least I have anyway.

cram it wimwar! we need to keep every last clevelander we can!

I'm sorry, but that video cracked me up! Sure, there are a few solid marketing pieces in there, but the dialogue between the narrator and the astonished yokel---I mean, local---and the pictures of rich old white people that apparently live in this non-existent place...and add to that the dance/rave scene that flowed so smoothly into the quote about the average age of residents being upper 40s...whew! sign me up!

i remember getting excited about this one like 5 years ago and then not hearing a word...I'm not going to get my hopes up...especially since I think it's the wrong type of development for this site. regardless, I think i'll go scope out the video!

well, whaddya know? West 103rd and Detroit! Man, I really need to get over there. I used to hang at the Bent Crayon and Red Star on West 116th and Detroit, but it's been so long that I've got a big old blank spot here on my cognitive map! 22 days and counting til i can get on my bike and take care of that!