Map Boy

nice one X! Did you come up with that yourself or has that joke been going around town??? First I've heard of it anyways... MayDay, I am sad to hear about your distaste for Tommy's, but it remains my most favorite restaurant in Cleveland (and environs)! I am even sadder to hear that the Soul Veg has closed, yet again! If only they had stayed open until I returned...I would've kept them in business! Anyone know if they relocated? Or are they gone for good?

Yeah, I particularly like the thought of this district connecting with the lower-cost, more industrial district just to the east in the 20s-40s along St. Clair, etc. This would be the commercial, mainstream version of that and both would be able to benefit from each other. Not to mention the Galleria, CSU, and the rest of Downtown connecting... I was wondering when this "sleeper" would awaken amongst all the other big project announcements in the past week or so! And let's not forget Battery Park as another MAJOR development that gained momentum recently.

By the way, if anyone has any photos of Burnet Ave. as it is today, I'd love to see them. I'd be looking to publish them in a newsletter that my non-profit is putting out soon (in far off NYC). Send me a personal message if you've got the goods!

I happen to know some people who are doing great things in the Avondale community...but they take time! The pretty stuff comes way later...there's lots of community-building and empowerment that needs to happen before anything like this can see the light of day.

So, I know this has been touched upon in prior threads, but I think it deserves a fresh look... In preparation for my return to Cleveland, I've started to wonder whether or not some of my favorite eateries still exist and what's popped up since I've been away. As far as I know, Tommy's (Coventry) is still slingin those famous falafel sandwiches and the Soul Vegetarian has moved to one of the arcades Downtown...these are two of my faves and obviously I've already labeled myself as an herbivore, but let's open this up to all tastes... Where are the best places to eat in Cleveland??? Give us the name, cuisine, neighborhood, ambiance, etc...

Yes, a thoughtful and on-point article by Mr. Litt. This is on all of our minds!

hmmm...my mistake, I guess! I clicked on the property on the City's property site and that's what came up, though it was unclear where the boundaries were... And I'm pretty sure that those city labels in the first map there are incorrect. I don't think Newburgh Heights and Cuyahoga Heights come up that far north...

nice picture Montecarloss! Sorry I beat you to it!

Yeah, I still feel like this is some big billionaire coming in to sell Springfield a monorail...

anyone see the big article on how this project is the "real deal" this morning in the PD??? http://www.cleveland.com/lorain/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/lorain/1116840627151820.xml&coll=2 I can't get over how crazy this is!!!

Thanks X! I knew somebody would be able to make sense of those numbers I put up there! And yes, 1752 is a lot of acres...but those diagrams do show the plans taking up a huge portion of the site. What are we thinking...half? two-thirds? And what of the remainder of the site? Future development? Public open space? The City is getting a lot of shit for their approach to this project, so perhaps they can take advantage of the "sweethearting" that seems to have occurred and get their developer friends to do something in the best interest of the community with the remainder...

this one was posted on www.makecincinnatiweird.com:

what about the mushroom house in Cincinnati (Hyde Park area)??? check out this link... http://www.cincinnati.com/local/hydepark/E50html_11182003__GNHProadtrip.ART_Other.html there have got to be more out there, though...

Anyone else hear an echo...echo... According to the City's GIS server, the site is 1752.94 acres According to the County Auditor's site, property taxes due to the City of Cleveland last year were $10,912.76 The County's "assessed value" in 2004 was $143,780, but the "market value" was $410,800 (as to what the difference is, I haven't a clue...) Unfortunately, the latest transfer, from ISG to Steel Yard Commons, LLC recorded no sale price...which may mean that there was no sale of land and thus no tax revenue from the sale??? The entire property sits within the City of Cleveland, so all city tax revenues will go to Cleveland. I wish I knew more about projected revenues versus what the site has produced historically, but I couldn't find anything!

When I first checked out those maps, I was struck by how close and convenient it is to Downtown and the inner-city neighborhoods! I mean, we're not talking walking distance, but how many people actually walk to Target or Home Depot anyways??? People get in their trucks and minivans and load those puppies up with cheap wholesale goods! On the subject, we're assuming that this could have the potential of making some of these inner-city neighborhoods more marketable from a residential standpoint. Commercial will be hurt nearby, no doubt about it, but nearby residential could see increased values because of the close proximity to a shopping center. My question involves the likelihood of Downtown residents to shop here. There are a few 'hoods in Cleveland that actually enable their residents to live car-free and Downtown/Near West Side are the premier ones. However, I feel that pretty much every Downtown resident still owns a car! Is this an errant assumption? These folks will definitely drive 5 minutes down the freeway for cheaper goods and it could definitely affect DT retail as well as the neighborhood stuff directly adjacent to the project. A final comment is that there are tens of thousands of DT employees that drive in to work and drive out at 5:00, spending maybe a little money on lunch during the day. They'll do their shopping at the megamalls out in Beachwood or Solon or Westlake or Independence, because they don't have options in the city. But, if they can stop somewhere on their way out of Cleveland, it's possible that Cleveland can capture the sales tax from these suburban shoppers, not just those from the City of Cleveland...just another positive perspective.

Can you believe the final statement on the webcast that OMLL posted??? The City would consider using eminent domain to take the FC site if they choose it as the preferred site for the Convention Center??? Are you kidding me? That would NEVER happen! And who'd want to deal with that when the other option is seemingly just as good (probably better)??? Anyways, I hope this means that FC will start looking into new options for their site...though it seems more likely that they'll just sit on it, close Tower City and gripe for decades to come...

my point exactly...it's cut off by freeways on three sides and the industrial river on the fourth...so how can we build more capacity around it if not on site? The allusions to transit improvements are definitely on point, and the extension of the Towpath Trail will add another element of access or varied use. And on the subject of rail extension...there was mention of the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR passing through here earlier in the thread... any news on that? and again, I'll reiterate my positive statement that even if the developer is only in this for the profit...at least they're viewing Cleveland as a profitable place to build...sends a good message, even if it's with the wrong sort of project, right?

MTS, you captured my response better than I could have written it...so I'll hold further comment on that. (What happened to the new thread?) On the subject of the CONVENTION CENTER ( :-P) and StrangeBrew's comment, if there's such great development potential on the site, then why not build on it either way? FC has been sitting on that site for decades and could take advantage of many of the things that they're using to lure the Convention Center committee (the river, the shopping, the transit, Gateway, etc) to build something that would actually fit and make sense there! And yes, StrangeBrew, you could have your precious Nike Town...but who shops there anyways???

yeah, definitely get us the dirt on that one!

lots of questions, indeed. I'm afraid that we're just going to have to sit and wait for a minute. As we all know, the final decision on the Convention Center site will have some bearing on this project as well. If the existing site is chosen, the County will likely have a more defined move-out date. Otherwise, where's the pressure to get the ball rolling? They can just sit and collect income from the parking structure and wait for the price of steel to drop...

Don't worry Punch. I think there are many of us here who find that at least a small part of us is glad for this development. I'm trying to see it as an investment by outside capital in our city...they see the profitability of marketing to our center-city, and maybe it will open other, more conscientious developers' eyes to our fine city and its development potential. I just wish that we were pushing them more towards good design. I mean, they've got to go through the design review, right? Why not mandate a layout where parking doesn't dominate the landscape from all angles? Why not mandate a better mixture of uses, or at least the allowance for them as another phase of development? And absolutely, provide for the Towpath Trail. If this thing blocked its path, I don't know that it would have gotten anyone's approval. We do have to remember that there isn't anyone else fighting for this site. It's locked in by freeways and an industrial stretch of the Cuyahoga, so this could be a positive step towards making our valley more livable, and less environmentally destructive... As for the jobs...well, they're gone already and that's a story for another day.

anyone going to post the images from the 5/18 PD for us out-of-towners??? by the way, I think the promotion of Cleveland to different, under-represented groups (esp. G/L/B/T population) is worth another thread, don't you? who's gonna start it?

My hope is that Marous Bros. just overextended themselves and will wait for the right moment to revisit the District Park site. I could see it coming on line towards the end of the East Bank project, when all the infrastructure has been rebuilt and things will be a little more clear...that would be fabulous thing! In the meantime, let's bask in the glow of their other big-time development endeavor. I'm intrigued by the news of extra green space. Do we think this will be public? Bluff-top, near Edgewater, sounds good! What sort of commercial or mixed-use components does BP have? Anyone know?

One comment about the last sentence...I think with all the new residential in both neighborhoods and the distance between the two there can be demand for two theaters...and as I always say, provision of amenities will spur even more development, so these will both be great for their neighborhoods and their near surroundings!

What?! No one posted this yet??? Flats project draws praise, concern from City Council Wednesday, May 18, 2005 Olivera Perkins Plain Dealer Reporter Cleveland City Council members say Scott Wolstein's $225 million plan to redevelop the east bank of the Flats is a good one as long as it doesn't shortchange the schools and other neighborhood projects. Wolstein presented the plan Tuesday to Council's Community and Economic Development Committee. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com