Map Boy

yeah, pretty much...

By the way, I just went to look for more at the UDC and found what KJP posted (surprise!). Here's the link: http://www.cudc.kent.edu/Project%20Summaries/Cudell.pdf by the way, if ya'll haven't already perused their "past design projects" pages, you should...though beware, you'll probably get addicted for at least a few hours! plan accordingly...

I'm no designer, but what I see there doesn't wow me at all! the UDC does great graphics work, so I'm sure there's more from them on this project...no? from what I can see in the image above, they've got a roundabout/dropoff area with a little public space and small retail or station entrance area, plus a scaled-down parking lot (potentially a garage with retail frontage?) on the south side of Madison. On the north side of Madison and west side of 117th there's some new 2-3 story mixed-use structures with some additional public plaza space... I know this is all just conceptual, but I'd like to see something more ambitious to start with!

Here's a link to another thread on the subject, with an article from today's PD: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2819.0;topicseen

I know this is posted elsewhere, but it should be on this thread as well...

Heads up! Sneak preview of Whiskey Island park!!! http://lists.topica.com/lists/[email protected]/read/message.html?mid=810994357

Here's a pretty comprehensive site by the Doan Brook Watershed Partnership: www.doanbrook.org and a map of the watershed from their site:

BTW, here's Neighborhood Link's (http://www.nhlink.net/) version of "Downtown" Cleveland:

have we heard of Summer on the Cuyahoga? http://www.summeronthecuyahoga.com/ from Cool Cleveland: Replace Northeast Ohio's "brain drain" with "brain gain" through an innovative internship program that provides 75 undergraduates from around the U.S. with experiential learning opportunities and internships at major Cleveland-area businesses. Case is co-hosting the regional Yale, Colgate, Case, Smith, and Princeton alumni associations' 10-week, "Summer on the Cuyahoga 2005" program and promoting Cleveland as the place to live, work, learn and play, attracting students from the four hosts and other universities to settle in Northeast Ohio. The program brings talented undergraduates to Cleveland for high-quality paid internships, community engagement, alumni mentorship and social events.

I think the only ones with a national reputation are Case and Oberlin. These are both schools that draw a lot of out-of-towners to the region due to their exemplary reputations. Case is more of a "2nd tier ivy" type school and Oberlin is part of an elite class of "liberal arts or junior ivies." There's talk about this on other threads in this forum, but I will reiterate that one of the biggest things that I think our universities and colleges need to focus on is retention of graduating students. This means first and foremost, our own population, but next, the people who come into the region for four years of study, but are never really enticed to stay. Oberlin is a particularly heartbreaking example of this to me because so many of my friends in New York went there, but have no knowledge of Cleveland AT ALL!!! There are people working on this and one great example can be found here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2716.0

right, and through a conversation with a faculty member there, I found that the collaboration between CSU and the KSU UDC isn't as strong as it could be! Formal agreements exist, but there's not much actually happening. Or at least that's what I got out of our conversation...

I like the comments that I see here. I agree with what most of you have said that Cleveland won't ever approach what Boston or Philadelphia have, but we do have several mid-size universities with the potential to develop their campuses and surroundings into more interactive, cohesive parts of the city they call home. Case has a head start on this and universities like CSU and Tri-C have opportunities galore with their Downtown campuses. I know CSU has fantastic plans in motion to increase residency on-campus and build a college-town surrounding it...but i know nothing of Tri-C Metro's plans. As far as identity goes, CWRU has a great rep nationwide, but people give me this quizzical look when I tell them I'm leaving NYC for CSU. People from outside of Ohio are mostly curious about what CSU has to offer, but it's the people from Ohio that ask "really? CSU? why?" The local/regional reputation is poor, at best, until you get down to individual programs like Urban Affairs and Law. And once you get outside of Ohio, no one knows the first thing about it. It's true that the word "state" has negative connotations and insinuates an "only locals go here" feeling to outsiders, but the problems go beyond that. The University of Cincinnati (a state school), for example, has a far greater reputation and recognition than Cleveland STATE University. But that's for a whole host of reasons. There's also Cincinnati State, which has less notoriety than Cleveland State and probably attracts so little attention because of its big brother state school up the road. So, name change, sports teams, branding, marketing outside of Ohio, these are all difference makers, true. But we've got to build it up locally first. And CSU is taking steps to make that happen with its current academic and physical master plan. By the way, there was a University of Cleveland back in the day that sat in University Heights, which is now known as Tremont. Professor? Literary? College? Sound familiar?

are people getting in their cars at lunchtime and driving over to chinatown or are they walking? I kinda doubt that they're walking...

for those of us who aren't too familiar with the 'hood: http://www.nhlink.net/neighborhoodtour/goodrich-kirtland/ the only reason I ever came to this neck of the woods was for Slyman's on 30th and Superior. I used to go every Friday before school with my boys...[sigh]

sorta on the subject, but also bringing up an interesting topic: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1114342286101500.xml this article speaks to the opportunity for local businesses and non-profits to support community spaces in their own neighborhoods. I'm working with two non-profits right now that advocate for this sort of thing, so I know there's money out there that can be directed towards projects like these!

I can't believe 4 people actually voted in favor of paving it for parking...that was supposed to be a joke...fools! I am a big subscriber to the theory that city-provided greenspaces, which can be achieved with the help of numerous non-profit organizations (I work for one, so I should know!), can spur economic development. That being said, we have a great example around Public Square of the highest density structures in all of Ohio, built over 60 years around public open space. We have one block left surrounding the square that is just itching to get built-upon and was damn near built in the 90s. We have our Group Plan structures around the malls (a-c) and high density office and residential around cozy Perk Park on East 12th. So, with all this talk of new building around Downtown, I haven't heard open space mentioned ONCE! I know there's a new Wi-Fi Plaza at East 9th and Prospect/Huron, but that won't spur new construction and isn't much space anyways. How about a block on the east side, near the new Chinatown developments? How about something else east of 12th, but west of the inner belt where Cleveland State is growing (high teens, low 20s), warehouses are being turned into housing, the PD's new headquarters stands, and new development is proposed along Superior, St. Clair, and Chester around East 12th and 14th? Lakefront open space could take decades to procure and the river is too far west to adequately serve these locations. In addition, CSU might built ballfields and such, but will they be open to the public? If they build plazas, yes, but open GREEN spaces, probably not. These are things I'm thinking about and I know you are too!

whatever, it sounds great! Sorry, but I must ask a cynical, "been-hurt-before question:" what makes the developers think that this will succeed when something like Market 25 (across from the West Side Market) didn't last more than a year in a neighborhood that is apparently "gentrifying?" I understand that the Chinese/Asian population is growing quite rapidly over on the inner east side, but is there other notable population or income growth nearby that they're counting on?

Yeah, those guys are pretty lame...the ones in the renderings look a little more full, but that could just be artistic embellishment. Of course they have to do more vertical trees that won't gain significant width, but hopefully there'll be a little more to them than the ones we're seeing in Ferrarienzo's pics...

bizbiz...welcome! Have you checked out the original 515 thread? http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=489.90 There's lotsa chatter on there about present and future. We'd all love to see more pictures!

Oh man, I was just thinking the other day about how great the International District in Seattle is...namely Uwajimaya...the huge Japanese grocery. I doubt Cleveland's "Chinatown" could pull that off just yet, but a cluster of shops is a good way to start! I'd definitely ride my bike from campus (CSU) over there a couple times a week for a snack! Any clues to an opening date?

Oooh, this is so exciting! Anyone have any pics???

Yeah, much like Summit Street just did, my map was MY version of what Downtown is. The City of Cleveland's "Downtown" stretches all the way to the inner belt on the east end and it even covers Whiskey Island to the northwest. If a certain building doesn't fall in or out of my boundaries, it doesn't really matter. It's just a concept. Plus, I tried to think of it in terms of what's walkable/contiguous now (blue) and what could be with future development (orange).

ok, so with 45% sold, isn't it about time to wrap this thing up? If they're waiting for the snow to stop, they should've just built it somewhere else...

ouch...that doesn't sound too good. that's an extra $15 million to a project that might not justify that. I guess the worst case scenario is that we'll see less density on the site. and if they can't build out on the east end of the site, I guess they'd have no choice but to turn it into a big park/promenade along the bluff! of course I'd rather see the aforementioned public agencies put all the money up for the necessary engineering, but how long would that take to get approved? probably longer than a year-and-a-half, which would mean we'd lose the HUD $$$...

I think the proposed "loop" idea could come not as a result of adding new lines, but altering the route of existing lines. I think everyone here has been involved in these discussions throughout, so I'm reiterating what I've already said when I suggest a re-routing of the eastbound lines through a new neighborhood (created with the new innerbelt bridge alignment) and down through the city by the post office and Tri-C Metro, rather than through the industrial valley. This could happen with or without the bridge realignment. Also, the possibility exists that one or two lines could continue on a more "express" route through the valley (first stop out of Downtown being 55th) while the other could stop at local spots such as the new Carnegie and Ontario station, E. 9th and Broadway, E. 30th and Orange Avenue, etc. We could even call this branch the "Orange Line," named after Orange Avenue. Or the "Broadway Line," if it follows Broadway.