Etheostoma Caeruleum

It would be a good goal for PC, although a regional promoter, to offer up the advantages of staying downtown...or at least in the core city. Somehow, someway more people in this area need to learn about why we need to keep the urban activity in the urban hub and PC and other boosters can be a part of this re-educating process. I can attribute the lack of understanding of such, in part, to the mainly auto-driven landscape on which most have been raised...and to answer MTS... I did not say we had solely a "corporate mass exodus." I was referring the slow but steady exodus circa 50's/60's/70's which included businesses (lots of big retail) and residents and helped to spawn growth in places like Solon. We cannot kid ourselves and think that this has not happened and hurt the core. Corporate, retail, smaller business, or residents...its still an exodus following similar repeated patterns.

The mass exodus to suburbs is repeating itself again as it did in the 50's and 60's. This is where a regional tax sharing system can help offset this and maybe discourage these moves that have one community benefiting art the expense of another right over the imaginary line.

Is there any purpose in writing tot eh Feds to encourage them to NOT allow this to be used in any other way and to deny any requests to do so? If this could be the case, wouldn't that cause Kasich to be very cautious in giving the money away?...Because essentially he would look very foolish in doing so, even to his own party, no?

I thought the old Centrum was going to have some performing arts or perhaps movies again. Another restaurant? :?

Sad to see these places crumbling.

Pathetic.

You've never heard of Stearns and Foster? http://www.sealy.com/Mattress-Brands/Stearns-and-Foster.aspx Ok, thanks... Yes, now I know. I knew it was familiar but forgotten about the product.

Well done. Love the Sterns and Foster sign. What did they make? The neighborhood fabric design is all about walkability.

^Seriously everyone, there is no way of proving any of this. It is a discussion merely opinion motivated and beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but I tend to agree with C-Dawg. The funny part is wondering if this going to start a new useless Forbes list of rankings... "cities with the ugliest girls"... with Cleveland ranking high? :lol:

There are a couple vacant spots, but they're disguised well. The one large one that used to be a furniture store is obvious though and could use some decor to exude life. Your hints at re-imagining these places...and not holding them to the mall scene we expect of the past, is a very good point, otherwise such places become economically type-cast. From my experiences with talking to a lot of people....it seems they so often expect what they remember about such places...and not that such is a bad thing at all, but when they go to such a place and it is NOT exactly what they remembered, they automatically assume decline and that which is bad. Granted, we'd like to have some of useful and good remnants of the past in such spaces.... as I would rather have that than to have a place become a bunch of free standing carts selling hats and cell phones but TC is offering a lot more than that kind of thing, and yet it is often assumed that it is dead....Just because Liz C. is not at the party. I do, however, admit that they could use some more diverse retail options now that downtown has more of a population to support it. I wish when people walked into the Galleria, that they would not assume it is supposed to be the 80's mall they remembered, and would instead, open up and see it as a multi-use center with hints of retail and specialty shops, offices, and events space...... and some really new clever and independent ideas emerging, that to me, offers a lot more than the typical mall scene of the past. It will be here and these kinds of places that many will go when they want to find something different and not of the clone zone. Already, at GUG, they've have had many out of town visitors complimenting on what a great concept it is. If I had one negative comment about TC now, it would be the lack of maintenance at the parking garage entrances. They need to be cleaner and with a fresh coat of paint. And as MTS points out... "Most people look at TCC solely as a failed or under-performing mall. Again, it's sooooo much more!".... That is exactly my point.

Actually, Iran once (about 800 years ago) had some lush forests like Ohio, but after centuries of land abuse, war, ravage, etc.. they're gone. Human activity can turn a place into a desert, it is called "desertification" in a geological sense.....and in the case of Phoenix, where it already is one, they're operating already in a hole from the start. Again, what is happening there is unsustainable....and places man in a free falling state where he thinks he is flying. Also, the cultures of which you note, did not have thousands of people per month moving onto the land consuming and asking of it as we do, that which it cannot provide in return. So, its not really a broken record thing when one compares apples to oranges. This occupation of a desert at the rate a Phoenix is experiencing and the consumerism that accompanies it...cannot be compared to smaller tribes of indigenous peoples. Even in Egypt, the life of the culture was the Nile River, its fertile banks and delta. There is simply not enough water to sustain the kind of growth happening there without altering ecosystems elsewhere and creating a whole new host of damages to the environment. Ther broken record is really the catch all answer and idea that somehow "technology will find a way" so it relives humans od the responsibility to live within their means...and sends the message that they can go on living recklessness without accountability in how they use resources. One of the answers that is slaughtering a sacred cow, and one no one wants to hear or admit...is that we simple need to curb the reproduction of ourselves. Much like how the still true Aborigines of Australia understand this concept with the "voluntary extinction" philosophy. Easter Island is a micro-cosm example of what happens when you take more than what is available. By the way, they (Aborigines) were pushed into the desert by settlement from Europe....(British invasion) they didn't chose the place by choice. When Captain Cook arrived at Botany Bay, the indigenous lived where the forest was lush and where there was a lot of fresh water...which was near the coast. St. Georges River, Waronora River examples of life blood...and they didn't get FAT until they were exposed to the latest western diet...that's another story, though. :-o

I cannot help but be tempted to get in this too.... even after I have said a million times that eventough we love the sports, ( I am as big a fan as anyone of the Cavs, and other local teams) I played a lot of sports too...love the games, drama, enthusiasm and energy.....I realize we really do need to still focus more on not allowing sports to somehow, at least in the media, to define who and what we are as a city. We cannot be typecast like this, or do it to ourselves or we will set ourselves up for disappointment. If you read some of the comments on Cleveland Dot Bomb...you see so many posting comments that have tones that if we cannot be superior in sports, than we are doomed as a city.....and it is because we are not palying well in sports, that somehow such makes everything hopeless in life. This is a sickness. Please, does ANYONE out there see this often prevailing media attitude too...and in those who know little if anything about their city other than what's on the menu at the nachos stand at the Q? Does anyone see the problems this creates with trying to define who we are other than sports and in telling the rest of the nation we are so much more? Suddenly, because we lose, it makes everything about Cleveland SUCK! Is a sports team all we have to look forward to? Of course not, but by looking at the attitude of many, you would think so. This mindset needs to change...and those who subscribe to it need to discover a new gig and learn other aspects about their city/region. Its pathetic... More pathetic an attitude than the gutless performance last night that had team mates being all chummy with LBJ.

I think that can depend on what you are defining as sprawl. All the new McMansion and strip plaza and parking lot areas...Absolutely I feel the same, however.....With my work, which requires a great deal of detailed traveling to dissect not only the inner core city here, but also the greater area...I would have to say that even in our more sprawling areas, we can find a little more heart and soul mixed in. (Not the McMansion scene) but the more historic areas of northern Ohio that are not solely limited to the core city and that are full of "rich history" (although young, but 235 years is all we have as a country, let alone the state/city). There are suburb areas in N.E. Ohio that are just as old or close to it as Cleveland itself. Just under an hour outside of downtown Cleveland, Warren, for example... where I was born...and do not really like the state of it today, but it is actually older than Cleveland and was the first city in the Western reserve. People used to go to Warren from Cleveland to pay taxes. Although Warren is not really a suburb...and I am not saying it is... but more of a "far-out"..,satellite moon city to the southeast" as I describe it. Ironically, many people do not make the connections here as that place being a part of the bigger puzzle that makes up the greater region of N.E. Ohio, with Cleveland being the epicenter.....On the other hand, the same distance from the center of Jax, would have such a place considered a part of "Metro Jacksonville" There are many far our suburb-type areas here, within an easy drive.... that are essentially their own historic little places with some real character. (They are their own municipalities, of course, but part of the bigger puzzle that is N.E. Ohio) Burton, Chardon, Chagrin, Painsville, Geauga's park district as a green Jewell I want to throw in, in the spirit of a diverse landscape...and many other places to the east.....and to the west places like Vermilion... To me, these little exurb cities that are in the greater Cleveland area, have more heart, soul, and character in one..... than an entire Jacksonville. And still, we measure a quality of a given area to much solely on quantity of population. Cleveland itself needs to focus more on being the best 400,000-plus thousand city it can be.... more than it worries about being double in population. I look for more quality than quantity.....and Jax simply does not do it for me because the newer sprawl-type scene overrides the rest. I just associate so much of the Florida city scene these days with mostly shopping, strip malls, pretend cities, and overcrowded beaches. (Unless you go to St. Augustine, which is my favorite Florida city) Yes, other places have things we have too that I described above, but I was limiting this discussion to mostly contrasts between a Jax/Phoenix type place...to Cleveland/N.E. Ohio On a side note......The only thing I would knock about Jax rampant growth (and this comes from my naturalist side) is the simple fact that it is unsustainable, especially in fragile lands that make up this portion of Florida. Growth beyond maturity is cancer...and this goes into the direction of illustrating how much the river systems in northeastern Florida are threatened because of it. Left unabated, it will eventually connect to having negative economic impacts. Like manufacturing base eroding became the first real demise of Cleveland as we knew it in its still infant history, I see the unsustainable population growth and the ensuring environmental damage as part of what could be the demise of sunbelt cities. Yes, we screwed the environment in Cleveland, and still are but in less visually dramatic ways to the untrained eye, but what may also be less visually dramatic in a place like Jax (no gritty smoke stacks!) can have equally grave consequences. I say this because some how most people seem to associate environmental damage with the industrious past, yet cannot understand just how much population growth, even with no huge manufacturing behemoth scenes, can have an equal impact all its own. Such places are not exempt. My brother operates a line boring operation throughout the entire state of Florida...a multi-million operation.... and works on huge phosphate mining equipment and other development equipment...and this is where one gets a first hand look at the damage being caused by overdeveloped Florida, with Jax getting its fair share of issues associated. What most people never see...and the dark side of the so-called "growth" As for the weather, and speaking moreso on the Phoenix scene, now...I like seasons with moods... I do not want to go around squinting year 'round and getting crows feet and leather skin. The same thing all the time can be boring IMO. Too many people here gripe about weather. Geez...toughen up already. There is always the prevailing assumption that everyone must like warm and sun all the time. No everyone does. I just don't want to park my tail in a place that attracts 4,000 people a month but averages 4" of rain per year. Where is the disconnect with this? This is what will be the hurt of the desert. By the way, Cleveland has darters!!!!... :-D ...and rests on the far northern edge of what is the most diverse temperate flora and fauna on the planet. Darters, found only in North America. Oh... I think I saw a fish...my mistake, the river is dead and dried up so someone can have a pool. I think they do have the rare and endangered Devil's Hole Pupfish out there (Nevada too) but thanks to the sprawl, there is only a few left. And this issue ifs not about the loss of a fish, it is about the bigger picture of the loss of clean water...but I guess that swimming pool for Mike Piggasonno is more important. :-D

Ugh! Did they have more turnovers than points? How embarrassing.

So what "cult" is Kasich a part of? Is he resorting to labeling that sets this "us versus them" tone again?

I didn't say that. I was suggesting that the typical sprawl, to me, has no heart and soul...and that is what a lot of these areas have become. I do have relatives in both places...visited much since the mid 70's and am not offering up my opinion blindly.

Just my opinion, but Jacksonville has nothing on Cleveland.

Phoenix and Jacksonville, to me, represent one large collection of people who happen to live in the same area...many became old/cold...retired...and many of the young are trained to think life can only exist in the sunbelt cities. Furthermore, the two remind me of one large sprawl experiment gone bad. Big populations, but little anything else...little heart and soul and little examples of them being a city that has contributed much to the founding or building of the nation. They popped up like pictures in a pop-up book....all quantity, little quality. Yes, this is just my opinion and how I see these cities..... and not an invitation to debate and argue. Thank you.

I wonder how much fares are lost due to not paying. If we don't bother much to hold fare jumpers accountable, will we ever know?

I never denied there was not a "purpose" I simply used that space as an example of a scene we hate to see a given spot ending up like. The bottom line is that it wound up a parking lot. I am well aware of the project that was supposed to be there. And, if the past is the best predictor of the future, I lay a safe bet that it will become a parking lot or empty space for quite a while.

True, but it was an institution for so many years....and for once I wish that before we demolished a building, we'd have a shovel ready project ready to take its place...and not have some scenario like the oceans of pavement west of Public Square that has been like that for soooo long.

And I also wonder, with all the extra parking....and the demolishing of everything to make way for it....What purpose would all the parking be if there is nothing to park for!

I ponder the future of the spot....and shudder to think of a new parking lot in its place? Ugh! Until the property can be utilized for something...a river park area would be nice, but then the burden of watch and maintain would be a factor and the city, currently, grades average to low on follow up aspects like that, IMO.

Look at how many rapid trains are there!

I saw that the receiver was touched...part of his body, by a leg perhaps of a Brown..cannot remember exactly. I also saw an angle that appeared the ball was juggled as the receiver went down. Did anyone see it like that? Just the same...should have never had to get in that position.