Etheostoma Caeruleum

Maybe there doesn't need to be. I used to work that area a lot with the kind of work I did and there is plenty of retail within short drives. I don't want to make a big debate about this but when you saturate the overall area and beyond with retail....some things are bound to close. I see a of of these dead malls as victims of building beyond the actual need. Sprawl Busters illustrates this phenomenon quite well.

Bon Jovi or The "Beastie Boys" get in before Chicago or The Doobie Brothers and so many other greats.. Its just pathetic and so political. Laura Nero..now there is some class. If you've never seen the Doobs in concert...these guys can still jam at 60! YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

I'm sure somewhere within a few miles or so...a brand new one was built that was never needed in the first place. More castrating one mall in favor of another. This is in part an example of piss poor land use planning and no concept of working together as a region...where several communities all so close, but divided by imaginary lines are all fighting for the same piece of pie instead of sharing it. It does nothing to strengthen the urban core. This is also a favorite website of mine..."dead malls" Ideas.. Hmmm.. Here is one...These buildings can be perhaps made into a living and shopping sort of "indoor neighborhood" with all you need as opposed to just shopping. Other than this, there are simply too many of these dead malls to deal with. In terms of "mall history" there won't be many examples of this sort of thing. And I also think that not all were ugly...and that there were some that actually had a nice contemporary, clean bright look (sort of "George Jetson-ish") that can be restored, made functional... and appeal to some who remember the heyday of these malls around the late 50's to early 70's.

^ You're exactly right. Problem is, too many turn a blind eye to the kind of elements such a club attracts (even if they are not directly in the club, and rather remaining nearby)...that will have it floating around the whole area. They deny the associations and links with too much sugarcoating so therefore no one will ever be held accountable. There is a such thing as being so overly politically correct that the truth gets buried. That is a statement some on this forum are in denial about....hence why I have basically ignored this subject by saying that if it is left unabated, the decline of The Parking Lot District is a given. There have always been some rowdies in clubs since the hey day of the Flats, for example, granted... But in all my time going there, I have not witnessed the degree of issues like from from a good percentage of the element associated with the themes a place like Lust will attract. Its reaching a whole new level and ball game and cannot be compared to an 80's club playing Boy George and Culture Club or Duran Duran. Its simple...you want rats...then put out rat food....and Mutha F'er this and that along with a host of all the other poets of limited vocabulary and degrading themes that have reached a whole new plateau... is that kind of food. Sorry, but that's the inconvenient reality that is continually denied, sugarcoated or coddled. And it does not matter what flavor you are...If you are engaging in inappropriate goings on... You're going to get punished equally... But some see the kind of goings on as perfectly normal because they have not been used to respecting any rules in society, let alone laws...so when laws are finally enforced or beefed up....offenders are like.. "WTF... I'm entitled... I have a right... you're profiling/picking on me...me..me!". Its time to remind some that they never had "the right" in the first place.

I was trying to be optimistic! :lol: Seriously, fans should not expect much from this stage of the re-building process... except for solid and competitive play, standouts/bright spots to build upon. Having said that, I'd take this team and the direction its going over Romeo and company. Not saying much but its a start. Consistency must prevail because the organization cannot be a revolving door where nothing ever has a chance to establish.

I actually see an 0-7 start....but didn't expect much more... Signs of improvement. Cannot stop a team with a 2nd & 23 (was that it?)..that's sad.

It be nice to see Flats East actually started with the first brick.

^ Nice list for a largely underrated area. On the topic of restaurants..... This is not exactly a big secret... But never really heard about on UO.. a couple little genuine Italian spots that remind me of 1970's Italian restaurant eating... "Bucci's Brick Oven" at Southland...sort of hidden in part of the complex that has seen most of its tenants vacate probably due to an over saturation of retail in the area (cannibalization) and "Cafe Roma'" near W. 130'th and Loraine Ave. http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g54956-d394217-Reviews-Cafe_Roma-Cleveland_Tennessee.html Oh, and on a non-food related topic.... E. 89th St. Historic District.

I hope that those who wish to see more retail downtown will support the retail component of this project... Some great food, garden related... art and gift ideas here..... as well as the produce that will continue to be more available. Oh, and by the way, anyone who has aquariums may be able to buy the best fish food on the planet here! I will be using it to care for the fish in the re-source space. I have also sold it when I operated a specialty aquarium store some years ago. A handful of people worked their tails off 'round the clock to get this thing ready to present for phase one at the open house.

The park may be ugly to some... I can take it or leave it, personally.... But all I was saying is that I wish the basics were tended to before attempting the grandiose.

^ Exactly the kind of little things they miss that mean a lot. The attitude needs to change from the top on down...especially the dismissive one. And I also cannot figure out why many of these writers seem to have some kind of moral obligation to ink the usual Cleveland smears before giving the compliments. Its not creative writing...its just boring and tired. He "didn't expect"....as though where he is from is the only place that can have something interesting or original ideas. That attitude, in its own right is very peasant. The article had some good tones as well, naturally... But if this guy could not find good produce around here, he was not looking in the right places. I'll bet they had some god awful gas and bloating when they got home. :-o

Grand Opening of phase one went well... Here is a link to the slideshow.... Enjoy! http://web.me.com/gardensunderglass/gardensunderglass/Resource_Center/Pages/Grand_Opening_9-22-10.html#grid

Fair enough. :-)

Let's show how much water we have to waste for bragging rights. That's how this comes across to me.

What the park really needs is better maintenance of its existing condition. W/O better ethic regarding this basic issue....what will we eventually have? A renovated park that will be poorly maintained.... So, maybe more litter control, fresh coat of paint here and there and refreshing of the planters and cleaner bus stops and an occasional walk through of security would do wonders and cost a lot less than a total renovation. And, it is a better example of sustainability. So until the example is shown that this current space can be maintained and presented as best as possible.... Creating a whole new space is not really necessary. Disclaimer: Naturally, this is my personal assessment of the current given situation based on continual observation of the subject at hand, and such comments are not to imply being "anti-Cleveland" or "Negative Cleveland"... Rather, just simply holding the standards higher.

This is an interesting viewpoint. If we could find such unique stats like this....instead of the same old same old ones that serve as the criterion for "success".... It would surely help foster a more positive outlook on the city/region. And indeed, many from the Mahoning Valley commute to Cleveland and have embraced it as "their arras's big city" and have had many experiences here.

You mean how this project acquired land? What I proposed...I call it a wise and progressive ordinance that would not have such a wide open space looking like an embarrassment.

If I were Mayor, I would propose an ordinance that until such land is actually built upon...(meaning sitting 12 or more months of nothing) that it be put to some sort of very basic park-like pedestrian use in the meanwhile....and that if there is a surface lot anywhere, it meet with guidelines on adding a pedestrian element...some trees, benches, planters and walkways. Then I would find a way to implement a team that would make sure the areas get maintained. Maybe then there wouldn't be such rush to make the surface lots to begin with. I am not a politician though... so most interesting ideas in this world go by the way side or fall short of funding.But this above idea is actually not uncommon.

The design was a disaster from a focal standpoint in particular...in what is inherently a street level pedestrian/building interaction kind of space......and belonged in Independence on the 6th floor of a cocoon. Glad to see this coming down. It was like seeing a palm tree in the Rocky Mountains.

Ok. Moore patience required.. Now, with a crystal ball, I will predict that by the time it starts, the river will be reclaimed by nature...perhaps some huge cottonwoods and sycamores stretching their branches until they meet each other in mid river forming sort of a tunnel. Dredging will prevent the reformation of flatland adjacent wetlands... But if this happens it will look better than an open field of nothing but exposed soil! :lol: Seriously, from reading some of the posts, the whole project seems like its just playing musical chairs with existing business downtown. IOW, nothing really new coming in....rather, just a shifting around of current entities.

I miss Jazz 28, but nice to see this corner not remain a ghost for too long.

So this project is dead now?

Nice building, this is the old Allerton, right?....a Moronish thing to have such a classic building right nearby Playhouse Square....reserved for section 8??????????!!!!!!!! Jesus, Mary and Joseph what was anyone responsible for that, thinking! Oh, but wait.. I am sure someone will tell me how much such enhances the Playhouse Square experience. Can't wait for this rationale. Oh right...lots of kickbacks and money made.

Great set!!! Thanks for posting this.

Nice set! There are still a lot of splendid old classic homes in good shape along the main drag. Cannot forget Kranak's...and Reyers.. (did their main store close or consolidate with the one in the plaza?) Shenango river meets the Mahoning River and is very scenic near there, actually. Going into PA...at the top of the hill from old 82 looking east..the night view is awesome! There was also a nice "crooners" hall of fame there. When a friend of mine was going to Penn State Shenango in the 80's... I visited there a lot at the house they rented. We nicknamed it "Disorder by the Border" as a tribute to the falling apart house and chaotic parties they used to have. It was western PA's version of Animal House!