Etheostoma Caeruleum

THANK YOU! The most attentive thought so far....You hit the nail on the head.. Let's NOT forget in the land of automobiles that by LAW, pedestrians still have the right of way..and yes, the announcements indeed imply otherwise! :clap:

If you don't want to inform yourself on the issue, then don't read the post. You may not like the post from me, but personally, I cannot allow the facts I have learned about this kind of particular noise to be poo pooed or discredited from those who are not understanding its effects. Until you have been assaulted with this sound on a regular basis, you won't get it. Anyway, No worries. As for MTS up there....Look at how many times he picks apart what people say to exhaustion, over analyzes what are sometimes conversational rhetorical statements, baits, deals a race or profiling card.... and highlights all in red to the point the eyes are sore--And, post some pretty obnoxious photos. Anyone noticing that? That is just as annoying and worth some critique too. As for the "transportation engineer" comment.... One could argue that the typical transportation engineer may not be in tune with what is actually safer for pedestrians who are out their walking daily, and instead, is more focused around the issue from a perspective from the bus or other vehicle instead of the eyes, ears, and legs of the pedestrian. Sorry, I just think it is shear stupidity to have these. What next? Noisemakers on our shoes each time we take a step to alert people we are walking by? How about on the dogs paws? Where does this nonsense stop? Please excuse some of us who have the "selfish" interest for wanting to WALK!!!

With all due respect, but for you to suggest a "deep bass rumble" is a classic example of how ill-informed the general public is as to how harmful deep bass, coupled with vibration is to the body. At least between 12 and 15% per-cent of the population will have a severe "allergy" (extremely sensitive--especially children) so to speak, to this particular kind of noise---and that is not to say that it will not be plain aggravating to the rest of us. It can indeed be felt and can be literally terrifying to many people and can potentially cause immediate physical problems. This is a kind of noise that already invades many neighborhoods day and night by "audio-terrorists" who intentionally add this to their cars for the purpose of annoying the hell out of people and getting attention. Ever been forced to listen to this while stuck at a traffic light? Now you suggest buses running virtually all day and night to join in the madness? Even if this is heard for a few seconds, it will be offset by the fact the buses run all day and would be doing this. Never will happen on my watch. I will go to council meetings etc. I strongly suggest anyone thinking that such is a wise idea to read the following websites before making such a suggestion. Please read this material as adding what is suggested is sooooooooooooooooo NOT going to solve anything, and in fact, this technology is being fought in many communities. Its a dangerous combination of high decibels, low frequency and bass-like sounds. No, No, No, No, No, No.....We simply do not need to add any more of this particular kind of noise to our community. Such a sound has reached the maximum limit and quota in the sound scape. In other words, there is no room for it. Those who are acoustically over-stimulated will probably not know the difference, but this is not to say its alright. This particular type of sound is especially invasive in the home, in-your-face, and obnoxious. See below to become informed as to the type of sound this would be related to. It would be utterly irresponsible to do this. Talk to people who are forced to hear this sort of sound...and FEEL it nearly every day 'round the clock. It brings out aggression, sleeplessness, anxiety, and a host of other physical problems. Noise was used to drive Manuel Noriega out of his hidey hole. Lots of bass and vibration too. Want more safety? Hire better drivers. I can almost guarantee that if this is done, people will be wishing for the announcements again and say "What the hell were we thinking to allow this?" Nice sound when you're trying to enjoy your sidewalk cafe meal, too. Lastly, we will not increase safety by continuing to make everything louder and louder until we keep having to get even LOUDER to be heard. Where does it stop, and what cost will that eventually impose on society when we have a population that is largely hearing impaired? A more green, safer and sustainable community also begins with addressing excessive noise pollution and its negative impacts on a community socially, economically and environmentally, so we can create a more reasonably peaceful one---yes, even in the city where many think it "has to be" noisy. Noise by definition is "unwanted sound" it does not have to be loud. This would be an unwanted sound, trust me. New York City has aggressively addressed noise issues recently and is on the brink of cutting edge reform with their noise ordinances. http://www.noiseoff.org/boomcars.php http://www.noiseoff.org/ads.php

When my friends and I rode the train last weekend we overheard and saw many people making fun of the announcements; especially the "no one wants to hear what you are having for dinner" bit. I think, and many others that I have talked with think, that the announcements need to be shorter and to the point; announce the station, say a quick blurb about no food or drink on the train, quick blurb about noise related to cell and mp3 use, and if it is a touristy station (Tower City, 25th, and University Circle) mention near by attractions. Also, a lot of people dislike the guys voice. Overall, too much is trying to be said and I don't want to hear announcements the entire way to a station (like from Tower City to 25th and 25th to 65th). The announcements, no matter how Mr. Masek spins it, are a complete joke. I'm not sure who implemented this entire thing, but a trip to nearby Chicago's CTA could provide some much-needed insight as to how these announcements should be handled. Quick and to the point! It's not necessary make clever jokes about someone's cell phone dinner conversation, or even announce the "popular" areas of each neighborhood. How many tourists do we have riding our transportation system that would warrant such a thing? In any case, these announcements are doing nothing to improve the ride on RTA... they're simply making a mockery of it. Well said...the spin is just that, a spin/rationale. This is NOT needed and just serves to aggravate an already getting noisier urban scape. This is an issue I have educated myself on for 5 years and I think RTA folks need to be educated on this from the outside in as to why this is simply NOT necessary. By the way, I see there is little, if any concern about the crap at the stop in my post today. Well, as there are many who help do trash sweeps in neighborhoods, we will not be cleaning up after this mess. Additionally, nice opportunity to attract opportunist animals like raccoons...giving them the bad name when the label needs to be on the filthy and neglectful people.

Dear RTA, City, or whomever it may concern..... One sight I saw today just made me shake my head in disgust. It was on Pearl Rd. on the last bus stop heading east bound before the I-71 ramp near Riverview Cemetery. The garbage can at this stop was literally JAM PACKED with trash jutting out the top at least well over 12". (nice to see many people discovering the use of a trash can, though....maybe we can take the next infant step and learn what recycling means) Add to this...there was crap strewn all around the stop/shelter. I really don't know how long it takes for such a can to fill, but if quickly, means more priority needs to be lent to such. This is another example of not tackling smaller things that become the big stuff. This can looks like it hadn't been emptied in days....maybe weeks. Whatever the case, I find it not acceptable to have any stop looking like this at any time. When I operated an aquarium shop, I did "dead fish patrol" on all the aquariums every few hours to make sure there were no dead fish in the tanks. Customers seeing dead fish was bad for business. (not that I had many die, anyway!)...But the same or similar concept of something needing more regular attention applies here. These areas should be checked as often as possible. Notice I say "AS POSSIBLE" If I were not late for a meeting, I was tempted to go out there and clean up this damn mess myself. But now hopefully RTA knows it and can do something about this...or the City, if this is their responsibility...we cannot "unknow it" now. What the hell is this slack? Regards, Former heavy rider, continued advocate for public transportation.....but now occasional rider, wishing it could be more...but who won't support it until basics are given more detailed attention!

We also need to focus on filling the existing density, or as close as we can get to calling it that.....such as along Euclid.... Ideally, I would rather see every building on the heart of Euclid renovated and filled, before adding anything new that simply pulls away interest again to create another "district" while none of the dots are connected. If these areas are not filled first or at a same time, I see potential too many empty spaces, including new space. The same thing is happening in sprawl land where new plazas are built...while they cannibalize others, or do not fill quickly because of a glut. I have seen even newer places remain unleased for a long time.

Latitude seems to be doing well when it is open. They have their crowds.

Agreed, big time! Makes us look like we're a bunch of pre-schoolers who need basic instructions... "Now CLAAASSS...all together now"

In summary. I favor a square redesign and agree with McCleveland about what is holding it back. I also understand that by redeveloping such spaces, that it helps to promote surrounding investment. However.........There is one flaw we are still leaving out, and that is, the city's lack of proper maintenance on such a place. It has been demonstrated again and again, and why would redesigning the whole thing make this important aspect of "follow-up" any better? How would you like to have this beautifully redesigned space...bigger and better than ever, and risk it being maintained like at least 2 and a half quadrants of the square and surrounding areas like the perimeters around those gorgeous parking lots....giving even a bigger home for panhandlers and other unsavory fellows? Now, will this happen and be the case? Maybe not, but I am just going by how I see this area currently maintained. As 327 said, it isn't perfect, but it will do for now. But it would then be extremely important if we just keep it cleaner, make it feel safer with a police foot patrol presence.....and curb the panhandling and loitering to erase this image of one giant bus stop, it will make a big difference as it already is. Then when we can LEARN and demonstrate as a city that we can make it the best it can be as its...THEN, I would go to the next step and do the grand dance. Baby steps..baby steps...Then we walk!

That's all I'm saying.. The WD has become too "barish" or "Flats-ish" when in the past, there was a definitive line between the two. It used to be a more classy place, and mixed with the Flats scene....you had that nice mix. But, I would not want to see the WD end up like the climax that was The Flats. I really think the new Aquarium will ad a tremendous dimension to downtown. Lucy's is GREAT! Love that place!

^Thanks, I have actually thought about it. My concept would be to debunk the pervasive myths cultivated by the fast food and convenience industries that it costs a lot to eat well and that it takes a lot of time. I thought of calling it.. "Slow Food...FAST!" But I have so many other fires burning right now. This is one reason I really worked to promote the Ice Cube to locate downtown. I do admit, though...knowing the bodies are real creeps me a bit. On the other hand, for those who dream of traveling, this may be a great way to achieve eternal traveling opportunities!

^ I see a positive in that.. It may help promote better health...people to chose better foods when dining.

That's fine, I don't necessarily care either, but the fact hardly anyone sees it ever appropriate to dress up anymore, says a lot about dwindling standards or self respect. Exercising decent hygiene and a bit better dress, when certainly appropriate, rather than being a dag all the time is not about vanity, but self respect. Geez.. Even indigenous people's had a concept of this. It would be nice for people to come to Cleveland and say "Wow..Clevelanders look like a sharp, healthy people!".... Again, in this department, things have gone too much one way, in the race to the bottom. Its clear when visiting other places then returning here. If the place calls for a more respectful, dapper attire.....and if someone is not up to it, then they can always spend the night at McDonald's. In other words, you don't dress McDonald's and then go to black tie-like venue for lack of a better way to put it. You don't have to be able to afford Botany 500 to do this. How about supporting the nice Men's clothing stores right downtown!

Fantastic! A place where people will finally have to dress up a bit. So tired of seeing so many males (more so than the ladies) dressing like slobs to visit rather nicer downtown venues... Sneakers, blue jeans, a tee, and a gut...beer/cigarette in hand...good to go! Glad someone wants to see something more classy.

Exactly, the fact that it is rare is why it should be an example to be looked at (the point being to look for creative examples). Maybe cleveland can use this when it comes time to build a convention hotel at the County Admin site.... Remember when Cleveland was known for its public private partnerships.... (uh oh McCleveland is in a tizzy) :lol: Just what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I think a lot of us are missing the point here that myself, a couple others and 327 are promoting. It is about PRIORITY and PHILOSOPHY... Ones that do not place carts before horses and instead, choosing ones hat focus on making what already exists the best it can be. In this case, it involves the city exercising a development PHILOSOPHY/PRIORITY that would practice the general rule of thumb of "fill the existing voids first" Do this as much as possible...and HOW and IF possible. Right now, we often take what I describe as a "pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey" blindfolded approach by promoting to build something grand...then we remove the blindfold and discover we build something nice....YET still have a lot of crappy and empty areas we could have focused on first right near what we built. We focus on totally redesigning something that was far less an issue than totally empty spots. While I am absolutely in favor of a square redesign, to me, it is a matter of what we should look at doing first.....and if I had to chose between steering efforts towards that, or filling in voids around downtown, I would first choose filling the voids so as to not spread ourselves thin. 327 is right about his football analogy. It is about taking small steps that will in the end, create the complete puzzle to make something great....Quality over quantity, INSTEAD of making one GRAND thing and basically ignoring other elements we need to focus on. Guess what? We will have a great square.....and still have scores of empty lots, and other existing structures in need of renovation and if the past is the best predictor of the future.... we can look forward to seeing those eyesores for years to come.

I will dig up some of the botanical gardens, and some everyday neighborhood scenes as well as some historic places. Sydney is actually loaded with some fantastic architecture hidden beneath the large structures. How these photos are saved on my comp. makes it a task getting them on here, but stay tuned... I don't have a great camera. I just wanted to take some snap shots of various scenes. The signs of the businesses were for the purpose of showcasing how local and independent everything still is even in a big city like this. You hardly see the chains. The Ernst And Young photo was for the purpose of comparing it with the building that would be built in Flats East. There are, to me, some subtle similarities.

Geez! This has been a day of a lot of closings listed... Any good news?

I can envision a live cooking show right downtown like this one.... http://readysteadycook.ten.com.au/

^ Agreed. The scenario is that we have a grand public space...while STILL...we have these totally empty places needing filled. We have a brand new great public space....and still have the voids. I would rather..IN THE MEANTIME, make the existing public spaces as best as they can be...and focus more on filling in these vast oceans of pavement. Even in its current condition, and although I support joining the quadrants, Public Square itself, does not look nearly as bad as all the empty surface lot areas. Even if the bus stations were better maintained and litter cleaned...Maybe a fresh coat of paint here and there, and addition of some native plants and more freshening of the planters, would at least make a world of difference. So, I would rather see majority of monies right now steered toward filling existing voids downtown. One reason I was in favor of foresting the square is because the green will never go out of style, while all that other steel art and such, given the city's current history of maintaining such kinds of things, will quickly look dated and neglected. I guess its a matter of priority. Some seem to feel the re-design will spur the empty spots to be filled...other see it the other way around, in that filling in the voids may lead to better designs of the public spaces. Its not that I am against one or the other...it is rather, a matter of what to do first.

Well, I admire the ambition. But, just one small thing.... I am for making what already exists as best it can be first, so the city can show it can grasp the simple things. Grandiose plans are great, but if there is no plan for follow through on the on going up keep of such public spaces such as tree care, litter clean-up prevention, safety, public art maintenance....we then end up having a grand place that is largely neglected. I can cite examples of this already. Unless remaking all of it will somehow change the mindset that neglects the simple things, let's try and take the baby steps to make what we already have the best possible experience it can be. There are two quadrants of the square that fall short of that and just look like one giant littered and poorly maintained bus stop. The other two really aren't bad. So, in the meantime, let's make it as best it can be. One major detraction from the square are the nearby surface lots. The perimeters are never touched to at least make it look respectable... The plant beds are never refreshed...litter is constant...and the emptiness from the lots is vast and lonely. I would love to see places like that get major overhauls first, before we screw with things like the mall, which actually looks decent, and then still have the lots and poorly maintained existing areas.

I have an add on....What about those who do not wish to have kids? There is a group between 35 and 45 that the city is largely ignoring, who just happens to be some of the ones who can spend the most money in the economy.

Where was this?

In parts of the near east side I was familiar with years ago, it was actually a nice neighborhood. I hope its not all turning to crap. Some of the nicest houses and architecture were around there.

I will... I have loads more... It just takes time to get them all on here.