Etheostoma Caeruleum

God I could have used this route this past week. Still..No choice in the wonderful land of choice.....We have a choice as long as we drive. :x

^ This is a great place indeed. I was just thinking of outer areas around the city and what comes to mind is not really a secret, but I don't see it mentioned a whole lot....but the drive along Chagrin River Road from approximately Miles Rd. north to approximately I-90. Very scenic, many great parks, side roads, villages, and very graceful and feminine topography. Gorgeous in the Autumn. Hard to believe one would be minutes from the center of the city. I think somewhere around here is also the place of the legend of the Melonheads. There is also a hill on Rt. 87 not far that allows you to see the Key Tower. Lastly, The West Woods Nature Center nearby is a great place for viewing local "backyard Cleveland wildlife" The streams make tantalizing photos on a nice fall or spring day.

^ Well stated. We really do need a coaching change. On another note, I just think it looks really hokie how it will likely be Boston and L.A. again in the finals.

As to what is "cool" is really a matter of what one defines as cool. If you think a 50's through 70's Jetson's look is cool, you may find this in Parma. OR, if you think Rob and Laura's house was cool on The Dick VanDyke show, then you will find it in Parma.... If you remember when your grandparents remolded their basement with paneling and a bar....with 70's bar lights and entertained guests down there with those little tray tables....or if you remember Super Host and the voice of Jack Reynolds, or the channel 5 "You've Got To Catch 5" jingle.. You may think Parma is cool ...If you find old signage cool from the 60's, you may find Parma cool. If you remember the ABC Friday Night Movie, The Bad News Bears, banana seat bikes with handlebar streamers, Super 8 film, Barnaby, Bowling, Uncle Bills, Fisher-Fazio's, Silverman's, family restaurants, bringing pop bottles back for a deposit in the summer in your bike side baskets... or K-Mart AS your savings place...and The Cleveland Memory Grenade fun....then you may think Parma is cool. It represents a lot of "70's Cleveland" I think. If you find tackiness to actually be charming in its own way (like pink flamingos) you may like Parma! Parma has been poked at since the days of Ghoulardi for reasons listed in above posts, and the mediocrity that it exudes....but as time has passed, I actually do find many redeeming qualities in it. Basically, if you find some of the era retro things charming, you may like Parma/P.Hts. Overall, it is a clean and safe..there are with some nice parks, good shopping for all your daily needs... and great proximity to so much. There are actually some streets with some really nice older brick homes and tree lined streets. The view of downtown from the hill is fantastic. Don't worry... its not my favorite place, but we cannot possibly take it serious. Its like the kid in school everyone picks on, but you want to stick up for the kid....because underneath it all...he's not really that bad. Its nothing fancy, but it gets the job done if you're looking for affordable, clean and safe living with good proximity.

I would say I am happy with the overall project too..about 75% and this is because of the front street level windows we've been discussing. Nothing wrong with trying to promote a good thing to be even better.

Wow.. I think I have to agree with MTS on this! :lol:

I really didn't have so much an issue with what was located on the street level; the type of business in itself....Rather, it is how it is presented in what should have ideally been used for making a bright and attractive presence at street level with all the huge windows in a downtown setting designed for such. If the houses inside can be seen from the street level...all lit up and featured, it would actually probably look pretty nice. Why hide it if it is such a nice design is the whole point.

When panhandlers jingle the cup at me I simply say... "No thanks....you keep it!"

^ I don't doubt that the space inside (and its hard to tell with the shower door windows) is nice for what it is. If they had to follow any type of historic guidelines, it seems that the current design is as far from the history of the building as it can get. On such a large building with a strong presence and great opportunity for street level curb appeal, presence, show, pedestrian orientation and so on.....snowing the windows in just seems to be so counter productive to the effort to make Euclid what I thought was envisioned for it...and what I thought would not be an insult to such a fine building. What I see there now, simply reminds me of something that would be found on a golf course or gated community and not something that is a big part of a street where I would expect to not find business fronts isolating themselves from what is a pedestrian oriented street and downtown design.

The whole point is simple.. If seclusion is a part of the issue.....then WHY select a space that was intended to be widely seen in what is a main avenue corridor? I thought the overall objective for the vision of Euclid was to increase pedestrian and building interactiveness and establish more pedestrian traffic. Selecting a space like this and not establishing a well noticed presence seems like asking for privacy in a nudist colony! While the interiors may be nice and creative... Who would ever know except who works there? At the very least if the windows offered a clear view of this wonderful design without snowed windows which look like shower stall windows...then some light at night, at least it would establish a prominent presence on the street and their place in the community. The way it looks now is as though "we want to remain anonymous and not admit we are a part of the neighborhood"

^ Exactly!

BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW THEIR PLANS AND ARE SPECULATING. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE OFFICE SPACE IS BEING USED FOR OR IF THEY HAVE COMPLETED THEIR INTERIOR DESIGN. Why do you always seem to feel the need to apologize for all that is slack? The world must be completely without flaw or have any room for any constructive critique. Yes, you are right....I have no idea what it is being used for, and if it remains that way in their windows, no one ever really will......and what I see in windows that were meant for street level use and pedestrian interaction in what is a downtown, is all that is opposite. I also went by what I read about what they were doing in there when it was featured in the paper. If that is not their intent to leave the space as is, then it might be wise to post some illustrations of what may be coming...so then we can avoid discussions like this and confusion in the public eye. And, regarding to Tedder's points.. Valid as they may be, then why select a highly visible street level space that is really intended for being noticed? If it is not, then what's the surprise in my reaction here? If street level visibility was not important.then why select a prime street level space? All I am saying is that it is a wasted opportunity and such an office may as well have been up five floors somewhere.

^ Why would anyone do that when the interior cannot even be seen from the street. That is the whole point... The way their offices are situated is closed off from the rest of the world, so why would anyone even think of calling when it looks as though there is no activity. If they're in advertising, and if that is temporary, it may be wise to post a few banners on what is to come. The point remains, that it is a bad look right now. These offices may as well have been tucked away in some office complex at I-77 and Rockside. But, feel free to call them and find out... I would be interested in knowing.

^ Great point! " A business w/o a sign is a sign of no business!"

The way Wyse used the street level windows is a tragedy! What a wasted opportunity to draw attention to the building and create a much more friendly pedestrian and building interaction on the street level. This is so obvious and I don't see how such a nice project could have ignored this obvious important detail. It looks as though the street units are closed. The snowed windows... Yuck! Let's hide in our offices.

The concept of these doubles was actually a good one... Owner occupied living in one half...rents the other to pay his mortgage. The trouble started when many started becoming fully rented out with many owned by absentee landlords. Such leads to leaving the neighborhood to eventually be occupied with many who are those who no mater what, just don't give a crap about how they treat the place. Our family has owned two of these, and were NOT absentee landlords, and we were careful to try and get good tenants, but sometimes we could not tell...they wrecked the place...invited hoodlems over and so goes planting some of the seeds for decline. Interestingly enough, they had decent jobs...what they lacked that simply having cash in pocket will not always change.... is the attribute that has someone respecting/grasping what it means to respect their neighbors in a communal setting. Sometimes something as simple as one word..... "behavior" or lack there-of is something we are not recognizing as a contributing element to a declining hood.... as we diligently and scientifically try to figure out all the problems of such a place. Oooops! Oh, I forgot... crappy neighbors...a few bad apples can spoil a bunch and lead to others saying "I've had it.. I'm outta here!" Should not be that way. So, its not really the doubles that are the problem...it is who ownes them and what they end up being filled with. I actually think these look sharp when taken care of well. Albeit, we do have a glut of them and could stand to use a bit more diversity in the housing stock.

Not a fan of the addition....But yes, GREAT photos and nice place! Have not been there since 2002. Funny I didn't notice that addition. Looked this up about the building... Only a shell remained after the new building was gutted by fire in the Great Augusta Fire of March 1916 that burned 32 blocks of downtown commercial and residential buildings. It was rebuilt and opened for use in 1918 overcoming many obstacles including bankruptcy of the parent company. By this time, the building was known as the Lamar Building in honor the late Joseph Rucker Lamar, Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court, who had lived in Augusta. The Lamar Building became the Southern Finance Building in 1925, after its new owners formed the Southern Finance Corporation. The Lamar Building has 16-floors and conforms to the basic arrangements of early 20th century multi-storied office buildings or skyscrapers. Its steel frame, reinforced with concrete and sheathed with stone, brick, and glass, and its overall form of base, tower, and cornice derive from Louis Sullivan’s formula for tall buildings as developed by the Chicago School of Architecture. Its Baroque detailing and setbacks, however, clearly identify the building as an early 20th-century manifestation of a skyscraper. It is a large, vertical column with a 2-story base and 14-story shaft with setbacks capped by an ornate cornice. The mode of finishing the cornice was altered in 1975 when the original red tile hipped roof was replaced by a contemporary penthouse designed by I. M. Pei. This addition includes a glass room perched over an apartment. Since its completion in 1918, the Lamar Building has been one of the most prominent office buildings in downtown Augusta and a virtual hub of local commercial and financial activities. The building can be considered a local pioneer of modern office buildings with its fireproof characteristics, elevators, and office suites. The Lamar Building is located within the boundaries of the Augusta Downtown Historic District. It is open for free tours by appointment.

I guess I was thinking more on the lines of 327's philosophy. Maybe neighborhood development groups could have a more heightened awareness of trying to lure such businesses along with what they're already doing. Approach businesses with a plan that markets their neighborhood and offer incentives to come to it. Also, work with commercial property owners who would like to lure new tenants. Maybe a couple months rent at half price or free if they sign a desired lease time. Something to that nature. Afterall, it is the first few months that have many smaller/independent businesses that would occupy such areas spending the big cash to start up, so a break might serve as an incentive.

The Flats, as it became, in my opinion, was sooner or later destined to be something that would fizzle. It was too much of one thing and no plan. It was getting seedy and a less than savory crowd took it over. The concept of making areas right in the core of the city near the river more dynamic with entertainment, living, and park space greatly increases the place's chance of being more successful to a more dynamic and diverse customer/residential.. stakeholder scene instead of the "use and abuse" crowd that it often attracted leaving the place looking like total Sh** every weekend....kind of scene. Sometimes we just grow up and get tired of having some pubescence hormone raving kid puke on our shoe, or someone on a crotch rocket showing off. However, and I say a BIG however... indeed, the idea for making it all that of what I described has been failed to be delivered in these 10 years.........so yeah, probably should have left it as it was....But hindsight is perfect. I also thought if possible, more historic buildings should have been spared. Now we have a nice 20-plus acre flat of mud collecting litter and trash to gaze upon without so much as even a sign telling us what is to come.. "Coming Soon!"...

It doesn't matter what the housing is like if it ends combined with a lot of absenteeism and filled with those who don't give one crap about their habitat, even if they do have a decent job, etc. Anything, anywhere, desirable/nice can turn into crap. Pride is free... some need to show some.

^ Valid points and perhaps a good plan.

"Ain't" This is the grammar of the top city representative.

Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Well, in some ways....I feel the novelty wore off and we discovered we need to be more than sports and bars to be a great place. Glad we're finally heading in that direction. I also liked the Continental article. I hope that since we are showcasing our shoreline/Lake Erie, more people will realize the importance of making a good impression with clean beaches and parks--and why leaving trash/litter all over is not in Cleveland's best interest in making a lasting positive impression on anyone. This is where we really need to improve. Walk our shoreline and take a closer look at the rubbish you will find. Sorry, but its just an inconvenient truth, and we can all help make a difference by picking it up, reducing purchases of products that are packed in the kinds of materials that will have a great chance at winding up as litter....and using re-usable containers, bags, etc, instead like we used to when on a pic-nic. Also, If we purchase more responsibly packaged materials, it will force the changes in manufacturers using bad choice materials for packaging. We can actually start at the airport as a matter of fact. I did see some recycling containers there...good start. We can be a champion in this department.

I can understand some of the concerns about the wine bar thing....however, it does not seem like it would be a dive kind of joint attracting the lowest common denominator or bottom feeders. At the same time, I do wish our re-emerging neighborhoods would attract more functional businesses (not just eat, eat, eat, eat) that help serve daily needs of residents and to make it even more walkable. A place such as: More bakeries, post, gym, clothing, fruit shops, etc. I think the food co-op can be an important player in adding some of this element and to help foster the promotion of locally and/or independently produced goods. I know we have all these such places, and perhaps enough to suit the needs of a given area, and maybe they just need to be more concentrated to form one continuous walking neighborhood. But if there is not enough of such and room for more....By scattering such places strategically enough just a tad bit away from the center of these districts, may also help to promote more pedestrian traffic outside the immediate district.... and maybe spur even more interest in revitalizing other parts of the neighborhood/s.

Is there any information on that wine place supposedly opening across from the Capitol Theater? Or, is this the same place mentioned above?